RE: address with brackets
- From: "Mulnick, Al" <Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'[ExchangeList]'" <exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:48:59 -0400
John, are you saying that the value is just the way that AOL runs it's
diagnostics? If so, I see your point, but think that test is a low level
test that only shows that DNS is misconfigured/not operational. I still
can't see the value in the context of the RFC for the majority of users. I
certainly can't see the value in the context of mail abuse since without DNS
service, you have the proverbial chicken and egg problem: without DNS
service, you can't find the ip address; mail flow only requires (for most
mailers that follow the concept) an A RR to deliver mail.
Thanks for pointing out AOL's troubleshooting methods as one possible reason
to keep that address.
Al
-----Original Message-----
From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:36 PM
To: [ExchangeList]
Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
http://www.MSExchange.org/
If you have any problems with AOL, and they do some tests, those are sent to
postmaster@[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
Engineer/Consultant
eServices For You
www.eservicesforyou.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:15 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
>
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
>
> I've read that as well, but I still don't see the value of the
> domain-literal addressing sequence and this doesn't help to explain
> it.
> >From that RFC (which, as far as I'm concerned is really ineffectual
> >since
> many hosts are still only RFC 821/822 compliant and don't know of
2821/2822
> comments yet):
>
>
> 4.1.3 Address Literals
>
> Sometimes a host is not known to the domain name system and
> communication (and, in particular, communication to report and repair
> the error) is blocked. To bypass this barrier a special literal form
> of the address is allowed as an alternative to a domain name. For
> IPv4 addresses, this form uses four small decimal integers separated
> by dots and enclosed by brackets such as [123.255.37.2], which
> indicates an (IPv4) Internet Address in sequence-of-octets form. For
> IPv6 and other forms of addressing that might eventually be
> standardized, the form consists of a standardized "tag" that
> identifies the address syntax, a colon, and the address itself, in a
> format specified as part of the IPv6 standards [17].
>
> Specifically:
>
> IPv4-address-literal = Snum 3("." Snum)
> IPv6-address-literal = "IPv6:" IPv6-addr
> General-address-literal = Standardized-tag ":" 1*dcontent
> Standardized-tag = Ldh-str
> ; MUST be specified in a standards-track RFC
> ; and registered with IANA
>
> Snum = 1*3DIGIT ; representing a decimal integer
> ; value in the range 0 through 255
> Let-dig = ALPHA / DIGIT
> Ldh-str = *( ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" ) Let-dig
>
> IPv6-addr = IPv6-full / IPv6-comp / IPv6v4-full / IPv6v4-comp
> IPv6-hex = 1*4HEXDIG
> IPv6-full = IPv6-hex 7(":" IPv6-hex)
> IPv6-comp = [IPv6-hex *5(":" IPv6-hex)] "::" [IPv6-hex *5(":"
> IPv6-hex)]
> ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> ; No more than 6 groups in addition to the "::" may be
> ; present
> IPv6v4-full = IPv6-hex 5(":" IPv6-hex) ":" IPv4-address-literal
> IPv6v4-comp = [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex)] "::"
>
> [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex) ":"] IPv4-address-literal
> ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> ; No more than 4 groups in addition to the "::" and
> ; IPv4-address-literal may be present
>
> In theory, this sounds great and everybody should go away happy. In
> practice, if I have the IP address, where'd it come from? If I have an
> A
RR
> why can't I route to the domain that way? How do I scale that with
mulitple
> mail hosts?
>
> I suppose I can answer my question by putting a link on my web page
> for abuse such as abuse@[....] but that begs the question of how
> people get to my web page without my DNS? It starts to become
> circular logic after a brief amount of thought. About the only place
> I could put this address would be on my WHOIS records, and that can be
> hacked (and has) and often isn't up to date anyway. Why bother? I
> don't see the value.
>
> I'd love it if somebody can point out the value and useful
> implementations of such an address. 'Till then I'll continue to
> believe this is wrong and the world is flat ;)
>
>
> Al
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:57 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
>
>
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
>
> I would recommend taking a look at this RFC:
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html
>
>
> Mark Fugatt
> MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> Tel: 585 586 3890
> Cell: 585 576 4750
> Fax: 585 249 0316
> www.4mcts.com
> www.exchangetrainer.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:06 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
>
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
>
> I'm starting to wonder if I'm reading the same RFC :)
>
> I see this part of the RFC :
>
> 6.2.3. DOMAIN TERMS
>
> A domain-ref must be THE official name of a registry, network,
> or host. It is a symbolic reference, within a name sub-
> domain. At times, it is necessary to bypass standard mechan-
> isms for resolving such references, using more primitive
> information, such as a network host address rather than its
> associated host name.
>
> To permit such references, this standard provides the domain-
> literal construct. Its contents must conform with the needs
> of the sub-domain in which it is interpreted.
>
> Domain-literals which refer to domains within the ARPA Inter-
> net specify 32-bit Internet addresses, in four 8-bit fields
> noted in decimal, as described in Request for Comments #820,
> "Assigned Numbers." For example:
>
> [10.0.3.19]
>
> Note: THE USE OF DOMAIN-LITERALS IS STRONGLY DISCOURAGED. It
> is permitted only as a means of bypassing temporary
> system limitations, such as name tables which are not
> complete.
>
> The names of "top-level" domains, and the names of domains
> under in the ARPA Internet, are registered with the Network
> Information Center, SRI International, Menlo Park, California.
>
>
>
> And especially notice the NOTE section which strongly discourages the
> use
of
> domain literals. I have to question the use of that by any
> blacklist/blocklist/blockhead that says you have to have one of those,
> especially since that concept doesn't really scale well, does it?
Multiple
> MX records are needed and if DNS is inoperable, then I suppose that
reverse
> DNS checks would also be broken, right?
>
> I'm not trying to rant about this, but it makes no sense!! What is
> the value of a domain-literal/implicitly defined FQDN for host
> delivery?
Better
> yet, is that not a bigger problem to specify such a thing with little
> return? I'd have to give away half the addresses (which arguably
> should
be
> public, but the situation is if DNS is down). I think that the
> further
use
> of the RFC which says that you should be able to fall back to trying
> an A
RR
> for a domain is a far better use of the system than is domain-literal
> acceptance.
>
>
> Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:27 AM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
>
>
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
>
> Here is a link that should help you out: http://tinyurl.com/g8vq
>
>
> Mark Fugatt
> MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> Tel: 585 586 3890
> Cell: 585 576 4750
> Fax: 585 249 0316
> www.4mcts.com
> www.exchangetrainer.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:48 AM
> To: [ExchangeList]
>
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
>
> RFC 822 require that SMTP server accept addres like "name@[1.2.3.4]",
where
> mail domain is a dtext within brackets. My exchange 2000 server dont
accept
> this type of address (there is a manner to configure this?), second
question
> outlook client dont permit to send to this address (outlook express
> permit
> it) thanks for any info regards giordano contigiani sys admin
>
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