RE: address with brackets

  • From: "Mulnick, Al" <Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "'[ExchangeList]'" <exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:42:13 -0400

Why root? ;)  Why at all is still unclear to me.  I don't mean to come
across as thick, but I don't see the value if the purpose is to work around
DNS being unable to service.  Should I start keeping the ip address of every
host I, or my clients send email to?  Just in case I need it?  And should I
additionally update those records daily or at least as often as the TTL to
be sure that they are usable?  Or am I just wasting time?


Al

-----Original Message-----
From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:29 PM
To: [ExchangeList]
Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets


http://www.MSExchange.org/

The only addresses that I see that need this are root, postmaster and abuse.
All others do not need it.

John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
Engineer/Consultant
eServices For You
www.eservicesforyou.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:13 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> 
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
> 
> John, I can understand that a spam relay check checking for a host on 
> the
ip
> block and sending.  But what's that got to do with hosting an addr of 
> user@[....] ??  That doesn't translate to anything that I can see.  
> Can
you
> elaborate that point?
> 
> Al
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:12 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> 
> 
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
> 
> Many spam relay checks operate on the IP level, not on DNS.
> 
> http://postmaster.info.aol.com/opse.html
> 
> 
> John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
> Engineer/Consultant
> eServices For You
> www.eservicesforyou.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:49 PM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > John, are you saying that the value is just the way that AOL runs 
> > it's diagnostics?  If so, I see your point, but think that test is a 
> > low level test that only shows that DNS is misconfigured/not 
> > operational. I still can't see the value in the context of the RFC 
> > for the majority of users.
> I
> > certainly can't see the value in the context of mail abuse since 
> > without
> DNS
> > service, you have the proverbial chicken and egg problem: without 
> > DNS service, you can't find the ip address; mail flow only requires 
> > (for most mailers that follow the concept) an A RR to deliver mail.
> >
> > Thanks for pointing out AOL's troubleshooting methods as one 
> > possible
> reason
> > to keep that address.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:36 PM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> >
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > If you have any problems with AOL, and they do some tests, those are 
> > sent
> to
> > postmaster@[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
> >
> > John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
> > Engineer/Consultant
> > eServices For You
> > www.eservicesforyou.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:15 PM
> > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > >
> > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > >
> > > I've read that as well, but I still don't see the value of the 
> > > domain-literal addressing sequence and this doesn't help to 
> > > explain it.
> > > >From that RFC (which, as far as I'm concerned is really 
> > > >ineffectual since
> > > many hosts are still only RFC 821/822 compliant and don't know of
> > 2821/2822
> > > comments yet):
> > >
> > >
> > > 4.1.3 Address Literals
> > >
> > >    Sometimes a host is not known to the domain name system and
> > >    communication (and, in particular, communication to report and
repair
> > >    the error) is blocked.  To bypass this barrier a special 
> > > literal
form
> > >    of the address is allowed as an alternative to a domain name.  For
> > >    IPv4 addresses, this form uses four small decimal integers
separated
> > >    by dots and enclosed by brackets such as [123.255.37.2], which
> > >    indicates an (IPv4) Internet Address in sequence-of-octets 
> > > form.
For
> > >    IPv6 and other forms of addressing that might eventually be
> > >    standardized, the form consists of a standardized "tag" that
> > >    identifies the address syntax, a colon, and the address itself, 
> > > in
a
> > >    format specified as part of the IPv6 standards [17].
> > >
> > >    Specifically:
> > >
> > >       IPv4-address-literal = Snum 3("." Snum)
> > >       IPv6-address-literal = "IPv6:" IPv6-addr
> > >       General-address-literal = Standardized-tag ":" 1*dcontent
> > >       Standardized-tag = Ldh-str
> > >             ; MUST be specified in a standards-track RFC
> > >             ; and registered with IANA
> > >
> > >       Snum = 1*3DIGIT  ; representing a decimal integer
> > >             ; value in the range 0 through 255
> > >       Let-dig = ALPHA / DIGIT
> > >       Ldh-str = *( ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" ) Let-dig
> > >
> > >       IPv6-addr = IPv6-full / IPv6-comp / IPv6v4-full / IPv6v4-comp
> > >       IPv6-hex  = 1*4HEXDIG
> > >       IPv6-full = IPv6-hex 7(":" IPv6-hex)
> > >       IPv6-comp = [IPv6-hex *5(":" IPv6-hex)] "::" [IPv6-hex *5(":"
> > >                  IPv6-hex)]
> > >             ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> > >             ; No more than 6 groups in addition to the "::" may be
> > >             ; present
> > >       IPv6v4-full = IPv6-hex 5(":" IPv6-hex) ":" IPv4-address-literal
> > >       IPv6v4-comp = [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex)] "::"
> > >
> > >                    [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex) ":"]
IPv4-address-literal
> > >             ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> > >             ; No more than 4 groups in addition to the "::" and
> > >             ; IPv4-address-literal may be present
> > >
> > > In theory, this sounds great and everybody should go away happy.  
> > > In practice, if I have the IP address, where'd it come from? If I 
> > > have an A
> > RR
> > > why can't I route to the domain that way?  How do I scale that 
> > > with
> > mulitple
> > > mail hosts?
> > >
> > > I suppose I can answer my question by putting a link on my web 
> > > page for abuse such as abuse@[....] but that begs the question of 
> > > how people get to my web page without my DNS?  It starts to become 
> > > circular logic after a brief amount of thought.  About the only 
> > > place I could put this address would be on my WHOIS records, and 
> > > that can be hacked (and has) and often isn't up to date anyway.  
> > > Why bother?  I don't see the value.
> > >
> > > I'd love it if somebody can point out the value and useful 
> > > implementations of such an address.  'Till then I'll continue to 
> > > believe this is wrong and the world is flat ;)
> > >
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:57 PM
> > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > >
> > > I would recommend taking a look at this RFC: 
> > > http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark Fugatt
> > > MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> > > Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> > > Tel:  585 586 3890
> > > Cell: 585 576 4750
> > > Fax:  585 249 0316
> > > www.4mcts.com
> > > www.exchangetrainer.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:06 PM
> > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > >
> > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > >
> > > I'm starting to wonder if I'm reading the same RFC :)
> > >
> > > I see this part of the RFC :
> > >
> > > 6.2.3.  DOMAIN TERMS
> > >
> > >         A domain-ref must be THE official name of a registry, network,
> > >         or  host.   It  is  a  symbolic  reference, within a name sub-
> > >         domain.  At times, it is necessary to bypass standard  mechan-
> > >         isms  for  resolving  such  references,  using  more primitive
> > >         information, such as a network host address  rather  than  its
> > >         associated host name.
> > >
> > >         To permit such references, this standard provides the  domain-
> > >         literal  construct.   Its contents must conform with the needs
> > >         of the sub-domain in which it is interpreted.
> > >
> > >         Domain-literals which refer to domains within the ARPA  Inter-
> > >         net  specify  32-bit  Internet addresses, in four 8-bit fields
> > >         noted in decimal, as described in Request for  Comments  #820,
> > >         "Assigned Numbers."  For example:
> > >
> > >                                  [10.0.3.19]
> > >
> > >         Note:  THE USE OF DOMAIN-LITERALS IS STRONGLY
> DISCOURAGED.
> > It
> > >                is  permitted  only  as  a means of bypassing temporary
> > >                system limitations, such as name tables which  are  not
> > >                complete.
> > >
> > >         The names of "top-level" domains, and  the  names  of  domains
> > >         under  in  the  ARPA Internet, are registered with the Network
> > >         Information Center, SRI International, Menlo Park, 
> > > California.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And especially notice the NOTE section which strongly discourages 
> > > the use
> > of
> > > domain literals.  I have to question the use of that by any 
> > > blacklist/blocklist/blockhead that says you have to have one of 
> > > those, especially since that concept doesn't really scale well, 
> > > does it?
> > Multiple
> > > MX records are needed and if DNS is inoperable, then I suppose 
> > > that
> > reverse
> > > DNS checks would also be broken, right?
> > >
> > > I'm not trying to rant about this, but it makes no sense!!  What 
> > > is the value of a domain-literal/implicitly defined FQDN for host 
> > > delivery?
> > Better
> > > yet, is that not a bigger problem to specify such a thing with 
> > > little return?  I'd have to give away half the addresses (which 
> > > arguably should
> > be
> > > public, but the situation is if DNS is down).  I think that the 
> > > further
> > use
> > > of the RFC which says that you should be able to fall back to 
> > > trying an A
> > RR
> > > for a domain is a far better use of the system than is 
> > > domain-literal acceptance.
> > >
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:27 AM
> > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > >
> > > Here is a link that should help you out: http://tinyurl.com/g8vq
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark Fugatt
> > > MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> > > Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> > > Tel:  585 586 3890
> > > Cell: 585 576 4750
> > > Fax:  585 249 0316
> > > www.4mcts.com
> > > www.exchangetrainer.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:48 AM
> > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > >
> > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > >
> > > RFC 822 require that SMTP server accept addres like 
> > > "name@[1.2.3.4]",
> > where
> > > mail domain is a dtext within brackets. My exchange 2000 server 
> > > dont
> > accept
> > > this type of address (there is a manner to configure this?), 
> > > second
> > question
> > > outlook client dont permit to send to this address (outlook 
> > > express permit
> > > it) thanks for any info regards giordano contigiani sys admin
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > List Archives: 
> > > http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> > > Exchange Newsletters: 
> > > http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> > > Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> > > Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1
> > > ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security
> > > Resource
> > > Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library:
> > > http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
> > > http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List
as:
> > > mark@xxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> > > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > List Archives: 
> > > http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> > > Exchange Newsletters: 
> > > http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> > > Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> > > Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1
> > > ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security
> > > Resource
> > > Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library:
> > > http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
> > > http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List
as:
> > > al.mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> > > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > List Archives: 
> > > http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> > > Exchange Newsletters: 
> > > http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> > > Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> > > Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1
> > > ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security
> > > Resource
> > > Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library:
> > > http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
> > > http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List
as:
> > > mark@xxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> > > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > List Archives: 
> > > http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> > > Exchange Newsletters: 
> > > http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> > > Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> > > Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1
> > > ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security
> > > Resource
> > > Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library:
> > > http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
> > > http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List
as:
> > > al.mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> > > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > List Archives: 
> > > http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> > > Exchange Newsletters: 
> > > http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> > > Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> > > Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1
> > > ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security
> > > Resource Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security
> > > Library: http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
> > > http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List
> > > as: johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email
> > > to leave-exchangelist- 1440469J@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > List Archives: 
> > http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> > Exchange Newsletters: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> > Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> > Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 
> > ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security 
> > Resource
> > Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library:
> > http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
> > http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List as:
> > al.mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > List Archives: 
> > http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> > Exchange Newsletters: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> > Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> > Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 
> > ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security 
> > Resource Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security 
> > Library: http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions: 
> > http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List 
> > as: johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email 
> > to leave-exchangelist- 1440469J@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> List Archives: 
> http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> Exchange Newsletters: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 ISA
> Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security Resource
> Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library:
> http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
> http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List as:
> al.mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> List Archives: 
> http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
> Exchange Newsletters: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
> Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
> Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com
> No.1 ISA Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org
> Windows Security Resource Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/
> Network Security Library: http://www.secinf.net/
> Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions: http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List as:
> johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-exchangelist-
> 1440469J@xxxxxxxxxxxxx


------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=exchangelist
Exchange Newsletters: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/newsletter.asp
Exchange FAQ: http://www.msexchange.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Other Internet Software Marketing Sites:
Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 ISA
Server Resource Site: http://www.isaserver.org Windows Security Resource
Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library:
http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions:
http://www.ntfaxfaq.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this MSExchange.org Discussion List as:
al.mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send a blank email to
$subst('Email.Unsub')


Other related posts: