RE: address with brackets

  • From: "John Tolmachoff \(Lists\)" <johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "'[ExchangeList]'" <exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:31:25 -0700

The use of receiving e-mail addressed to abuse, postmaster and root to the
IP address of the mail server is supposed to be a fail safe for if all else
is breaking, some one could still send a message to that and be able to get
through to someone.

It is for the mail server only, and not intended to reach any client or
user. It is for the admin/owner/company of the e-mail server.

I do not have any further explanation or reason.

John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
Engineer/Consultant
eServices For You
www.eservicesforyou.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 5:42 AM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> 
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
> 
> Why root? ;)  Why at all is still unclear to me.  I don't mean to come
> across as thick, but I don't see the value if the purpose is to work
around
> DNS being unable to service.  Should I start keeping the ip address of
every
> host I, or my clients send email to?  Just in case I need it?  And should
I
> additionally update those records daily or at least as often as the TTL to
> be sure that they are usable?  Or am I just wasting time?
> 
> 
> Al
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:29 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> 
> 
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
> 
> The only addresses that I see that need this are root, postmaster and
abuse.
> All others do not need it.
> 
> John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
> Engineer/Consultant
> eServices For You
> www.eservicesforyou.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:13 PM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > John, I can understand that a spam relay check checking for a host on
> > the
> ip
> > block and sending.  But what's that got to do with hosting an addr of
> > user@[....] ??  That doesn't translate to anything that I can see.
> > Can
> you
> > elaborate that point?
> >
> > Al
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:12 PM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> >
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > Many spam relay checks operate on the IP level, not on DNS.
> >
> > http://postmaster.info.aol.com/opse.html
> >
> >
> > John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
> > Engineer/Consultant
> > eServices For You
> > www.eservicesforyou.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:49 PM
> > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > >
> > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > >
> > > John, are you saying that the value is just the way that AOL runs
> > > it's diagnostics?  If so, I see your point, but think that test is a
> > > low level test that only shows that DNS is misconfigured/not
> > > operational. I still can't see the value in the context of the RFC
> > > for the majority of users.
> > I
> > > certainly can't see the value in the context of mail abuse since
> > > without
> > DNS
> > > service, you have the proverbial chicken and egg problem: without
> > > DNS service, you can't find the ip address; mail flow only requires
> > > (for most mailers that follow the concept) an A RR to deliver mail.
> > >
> > > Thanks for pointing out AOL's troubleshooting methods as one
> > > possible
> > reason
> > > to keep that address.
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:36 PM
> > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > >
> > > If you have any problems with AOL, and they do some tests, those are
> > > sent
> > to
> > > postmaster@[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
> > >
> > > John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
> > > Engineer/Consultant
> > > eServices For You
> > > www.eservicesforyou.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:15 PM
> > > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > > >
> > > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > > >
> > > > I've read that as well, but I still don't see the value of the
> > > > domain-literal addressing sequence and this doesn't help to
> > > > explain it.
> > > > >From that RFC (which, as far as I'm concerned is really
> > > > >ineffectual since
> > > > many hosts are still only RFC 821/822 compliant and don't know of
> > > 2821/2822
> > > > comments yet):
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 4.1.3 Address Literals
> > > >
> > > >    Sometimes a host is not known to the domain name system and
> > > >    communication (and, in particular, communication to report and
> repair
> > > >    the error) is blocked.  To bypass this barrier a special
> > > > literal
> form
> > > >    of the address is allowed as an alternative to a domain name.
For
> > > >    IPv4 addresses, this form uses four small decimal integers
> separated
> > > >    by dots and enclosed by brackets such as [123.255.37.2], which
> > > >    indicates an (IPv4) Internet Address in sequence-of-octets
> > > > form.
> For
> > > >    IPv6 and other forms of addressing that might eventually be
> > > >    standardized, the form consists of a standardized "tag" that
> > > >    identifies the address syntax, a colon, and the address itself,
> > > > in
> a
> > > >    format specified as part of the IPv6 standards [17].
> > > >
> > > >    Specifically:
> > > >
> > > >       IPv4-address-literal = Snum 3("." Snum)
> > > >       IPv6-address-literal = "IPv6:" IPv6-addr
> > > >       General-address-literal = Standardized-tag ":" 1*dcontent
> > > >       Standardized-tag = Ldh-str
> > > >             ; MUST be specified in a standards-track RFC
> > > >             ; and registered with IANA
> > > >
> > > >       Snum = 1*3DIGIT  ; representing a decimal integer
> > > >             ; value in the range 0 through 255
> > > >       Let-dig = ALPHA / DIGIT
> > > >       Ldh-str = *( ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" ) Let-dig
> > > >
> > > >       IPv6-addr = IPv6-full / IPv6-comp / IPv6v4-full / IPv6v4-comp
> > > >       IPv6-hex  = 1*4HEXDIG
> > > >       IPv6-full = IPv6-hex 7(":" IPv6-hex)
> > > >       IPv6-comp = [IPv6-hex *5(":" IPv6-hex)] "::" [IPv6-hex *5(":"
> > > >                  IPv6-hex)]
> > > >             ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> > > >             ; No more than 6 groups in addition to the "::" may be
> > > >             ; present
> > > >       IPv6v4-full = IPv6-hex 5(":" IPv6-hex) ":"
IPv4-address-literal
> > > >       IPv6v4-comp = [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex)] "::"
> > > >
> > > >                    [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex) ":"]
> IPv4-address-literal
> > > >             ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> > > >             ; No more than 4 groups in addition to the "::" and
> > > >             ; IPv4-address-literal may be present
> > > >
> > > > In theory, this sounds great and everybody should go away happy.
> > > > In practice, if I have the IP address, where'd it come from? If I
> > > > have an A
> > > RR
> > > > why can't I route to the domain that way?  How do I scale that
> > > > with
> > > mulitple
> > > > mail hosts?
> > > >
> > > > I suppose I can answer my question by putting a link on my web
> > > > page for abuse such as abuse@[....] but that begs the question of
> > > > how people get to my web page without my DNS?  It starts to become
> > > > circular logic after a brief amount of thought.  About the only
> > > > place I could put this address would be on my WHOIS records, and
> > > > that can be hacked (and has) and often isn't up to date anyway.
> > > > Why bother?  I don't see the value.
> > > >
> > > > I'd love it if somebody can point out the value and useful
> > > > implementations of such an address.  'Till then I'll continue to
> > > > believe this is wrong and the world is flat ;)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Al
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:57 PM
> > > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > > >
> > > > I would recommend taking a look at this RFC:
> > > > http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark Fugatt
> > > > MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> > > > Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> > > > Tel:  585 586 3890
> > > > Cell: 585 576 4750
> > > > Fax:  585 249 0316
> > > > www.4mcts.com
> > > > www.exchangetrainer.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:06 PM
> > > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > >
> > > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > > >
> > > > I'm starting to wonder if I'm reading the same RFC :)
> > > >
> > > > I see this part of the RFC :
> > > >
> > > > 6.2.3.  DOMAIN TERMS
> > > >
> > > >         A domain-ref must be THE official name of a registry,
network,
> > > >         or  host.   It  is  a  symbolic  reference, within a name
sub-
> > > >         domain.  At times, it is necessary to bypass standard
mechan-
> > > >         isms  for  resolving  such  references,  using  more
primitive
> > > >         information, such as a network host address  rather  than
its
> > > >         associated host name.
> > > >
> > > >         To permit such references, this standard provides the
domain-
> > > >         literal  construct.   Its contents must conform with the
needs
> > > >         of the sub-domain in which it is interpreted.
> > > >
> > > >         Domain-literals which refer to domains within the ARPA
Inter-
> > > >         net  specify  32-bit  Internet addresses, in four 8-bit
fields
> > > >         noted in decimal, as described in Request for  Comments
#820,
> > > >         "Assigned Numbers."  For example:
> > > >
> > > >                                  [10.0.3.19]
> > > >
> > > >         Note:  THE USE OF DOMAIN-LITERALS IS STRONGLY
> > DISCOURAGED.
> > > It
> > > >                is  permitted  only  as  a means of bypassing
temporary
> > > >                system limitations, such as name tables which  are
not
> > > >                complete.
> > > >
> > > >         The names of "top-level" domains, and  the  names  of
domains
> > > >         under  in  the  ARPA Internet, are registered with the
Network
> > > >         Information Center, SRI International, Menlo Park,
> > > > California.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And especially notice the NOTE section which strongly discourages
> > > > the use
> > > of
> > > > domain literals.  I have to question the use of that by any
> > > > blacklist/blocklist/blockhead that says you have to have one of
> > > > those, especially since that concept doesn't really scale well,
> > > > does it?
> > > Multiple
> > > > MX records are needed and if DNS is inoperable, then I suppose
> > > > that
> > > reverse
> > > > DNS checks would also be broken, right?
> > > >
> > > > I'm not trying to rant about this, but it makes no sense!!  What
> > > > is the value of a domain-literal/implicitly defined FQDN for host
> > > > delivery?
> > > Better
> > > > yet, is that not a bigger problem to specify such a thing with
> > > > little return?  I'd have to give away half the addresses (which
> > > > arguably should
> > > be
> > > > public, but the situation is if DNS is down).  I think that the
> > > > further
> > > use
> > > > of the RFC which says that you should be able to fall back to
> > > > trying an A
> > > RR
> > > > for a domain is a far better use of the system than is
> > > > domain-literal acceptance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Al
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:27 AM
> > > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > > >
> > > > Here is a link that should help you out: http://tinyurl.com/g8vq
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark Fugatt
> > > > MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> > > > Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> > > > Tel:  585 586 3890
> > > > Cell: 585 576 4750
> > > > Fax:  585 249 0316
> > > > www.4mcts.com
> > > > www.exchangetrainer.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:48 AM
> > > > To: [ExchangeList]
> > > >
> > > > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> > > >
> > > > RFC 822 require that SMTP server accept addres like
> > > > "name@[1.2.3.4]",
> > > where
> > > > mail domain is a dtext within brackets. My exchange 2000 server
> > > > dont
> > > accept
> > > > this type of address (there is a manner to configure this?),
> > > > second
> > > question
> > > > outlook client dont permit to send to this address (outlook
> > > > express permit
> > > > it) thanks for any info regards giordano contigiani sys admin
> > > >
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