RE: address with brackets

  • From: "John Tolmachoff \(Lists\)" <johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "'[ExchangeList]'" <exchangelist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:12:13 -0700

Many spam relay checks operate on the IP level, not on DNS.

http://postmaster.info.aol.com/opse.html


John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
Engineer/Consultant
eServices For You
www.eservicesforyou.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:49 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> 
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
> 
> John, are you saying that the value is just the way that AOL runs it's
> diagnostics?  If so, I see your point, but think that test is a low level
> test that only shows that DNS is misconfigured/not operational.  I still
> can't see the value in the context of the RFC for the majority of users.
I
> certainly can't see the value in the context of mail abuse since without
DNS
> service, you have the proverbial chicken and egg problem: without DNS
> service, you can't find the ip address; mail flow only requires (for most
> mailers that follow the concept) an A RR to deliver mail.
> 
> Thanks for pointing out AOL's troubleshooting methods as one possible
reason
> to keep that address.
> 
> Al
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:36 PM
> To: [ExchangeList]
> Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> 
> 
> http://www.MSExchange.org/
> 
> If you have any problems with AOL, and they do some tests, those are sent
to
> postmaster@[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
> 
> John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA
> Engineer/Consultant
> eServices For You
> www.eservicesforyou.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:15 PM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > I've read that as well, but I still don't see the value of the
> > domain-literal addressing sequence and this doesn't help to explain
> > it.
> > >From that RFC (which, as far as I'm concerned is really ineffectual
> > >since
> > many hosts are still only RFC 821/822 compliant and don't know of
> 2821/2822
> > comments yet):
> >
> >
> > 4.1.3 Address Literals
> >
> >    Sometimes a host is not known to the domain name system and
> >    communication (and, in particular, communication to report and repair
> >    the error) is blocked.  To bypass this barrier a special literal form
> >    of the address is allowed as an alternative to a domain name.  For
> >    IPv4 addresses, this form uses four small decimal integers separated
> >    by dots and enclosed by brackets such as [123.255.37.2], which
> >    indicates an (IPv4) Internet Address in sequence-of-octets form.  For
> >    IPv6 and other forms of addressing that might eventually be
> >    standardized, the form consists of a standardized "tag" that
> >    identifies the address syntax, a colon, and the address itself, in a
> >    format specified as part of the IPv6 standards [17].
> >
> >    Specifically:
> >
> >       IPv4-address-literal = Snum 3("." Snum)
> >       IPv6-address-literal = "IPv6:" IPv6-addr
> >       General-address-literal = Standardized-tag ":" 1*dcontent
> >       Standardized-tag = Ldh-str
> >             ; MUST be specified in a standards-track RFC
> >             ; and registered with IANA
> >
> >       Snum = 1*3DIGIT  ; representing a decimal integer
> >             ; value in the range 0 through 255
> >       Let-dig = ALPHA / DIGIT
> >       Ldh-str = *( ALPHA / DIGIT / "-" ) Let-dig
> >
> >       IPv6-addr = IPv6-full / IPv6-comp / IPv6v4-full / IPv6v4-comp
> >       IPv6-hex  = 1*4HEXDIG
> >       IPv6-full = IPv6-hex 7(":" IPv6-hex)
> >       IPv6-comp = [IPv6-hex *5(":" IPv6-hex)] "::" [IPv6-hex *5(":"
> >                  IPv6-hex)]
> >             ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> >             ; No more than 6 groups in addition to the "::" may be
> >             ; present
> >       IPv6v4-full = IPv6-hex 5(":" IPv6-hex) ":" IPv4-address-literal
> >       IPv6v4-comp = [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex)] "::"
> >
> >                    [IPv6-hex *3(":" IPv6-hex) ":"] IPv4-address-literal
> >             ; The "::" represents at least 2 16-bit groups of zeros
> >             ; No more than 4 groups in addition to the "::" and
> >             ; IPv4-address-literal may be present
> >
> > In theory, this sounds great and everybody should go away happy.  In
> > practice, if I have the IP address, where'd it come from? If I have an
> > A
> RR
> > why can't I route to the domain that way?  How do I scale that with
> mulitple
> > mail hosts?
> >
> > I suppose I can answer my question by putting a link on my web page
> > for abuse such as abuse@[....] but that begs the question of how
> > people get to my web page without my DNS?  It starts to become
> > circular logic after a brief amount of thought.  About the only place
> > I could put this address would be on my WHOIS records, and that can be
> > hacked (and has) and often isn't up to date anyway.  Why bother?  I
> > don't see the value.
> >
> > I'd love it if somebody can point out the value and useful
> > implementations of such an address.  'Till then I'll continue to
> > believe this is wrong and the world is flat ;)
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:57 PM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> >
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > I would recommend taking a look at this RFC:
> > http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html
> >
> >
> > Mark Fugatt
> > MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> > Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> > Tel:  585 586 3890
> > Cell: 585 576 4750
> > Fax:  585 249 0316
> > www.4mcts.com
> > www.exchangetrainer.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mulnick, Al [mailto:Al.Mulnick@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:06 PM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > I'm starting to wonder if I'm reading the same RFC :)
> >
> > I see this part of the RFC :
> >
> > 6.2.3.  DOMAIN TERMS
> >
> >         A domain-ref must be THE official name of a registry, network,
> >         or  host.   It  is  a  symbolic  reference, within a name sub-
> >         domain.  At times, it is necessary to bypass standard  mechan-
> >         isms  for  resolving  such  references,  using  more primitive
> >         information, such as a network host address  rather  than  its
> >         associated host name.
> >
> >         To permit such references, this standard provides the  domain-
> >         literal  construct.   Its contents must conform with the needs
> >         of the sub-domain in which it is interpreted.
> >
> >         Domain-literals which refer to domains within the ARPA  Inter-
> >         net  specify  32-bit  Internet addresses, in four 8-bit fields
> >         noted in decimal, as described in Request for  Comments  #820,
> >         "Assigned Numbers."  For example:
> >
> >                                  [10.0.3.19]
> >
> >         Note:  THE USE OF DOMAIN-LITERALS IS STRONGLY DISCOURAGED.
> It
> >                is  permitted  only  as  a means of bypassing temporary
> >                system limitations, such as name tables which  are  not
> >                complete.
> >
> >         The names of "top-level" domains, and  the  names  of  domains
> >         under  in  the  ARPA Internet, are registered with the Network
> >         Information Center, SRI International, Menlo Park, California.
> >
> >
> >
> > And especially notice the NOTE section which strongly discourages the
> > use
> of
> > domain literals.  I have to question the use of that by any
> > blacklist/blocklist/blockhead that says you have to have one of those,
> > especially since that concept doesn't really scale well, does it?
> Multiple
> > MX records are needed and if DNS is inoperable, then I suppose that
> reverse
> > DNS checks would also be broken, right?
> >
> > I'm not trying to rant about this, but it makes no sense!!  What is
> > the value of a domain-literal/implicitly defined FQDN for host
> > delivery?
> Better
> > yet, is that not a bigger problem to specify such a thing with little
> > return?  I'd have to give away half the addresses (which arguably
> > should
> be
> > public, but the situation is if DNS is down).  I think that the
> > further
> use
> > of the RFC which says that you should be able to fall back to trying
> > an A
> RR
> > for a domain is a far better use of the system than is domain-literal
> > acceptance.
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Fugatt [mailto:mark@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:27 AM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> > Subject: [exchangelist] RE: address with brackets
> >
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > Here is a link that should help you out: http://tinyurl.com/g8vq
> >
> >
> > Mark Fugatt
> > MCT, MCSE, Microsoft Exchange MVP
> > Pentech Office Solutions Inc
> > Tel:  585 586 3890
> > Cell: 585 576 4750
> > Fax:  585 249 0316
> > www.4mcts.com
> > www.exchangetrainer.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:giordanocontigiani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:48 AM
> > To: [ExchangeList]
> >
> > http://www.MSExchange.org/
> >
> > RFC 822 require that SMTP server accept addres like "name@[1.2.3.4]",
> where
> > mail domain is a dtext within brackets. My exchange 2000 server dont
> accept
> > this type of address (there is a manner to configure this?), second
> question
> > outlook client dont permit to send to this address (outlook express
> > permit
> > it) thanks for any info regards giordano contigiani sys admin
> >
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