[ddots-l] Re: OT: Fwd: Re: [BCT] Microsoft demos super fast boot times in Windows 8
- From: Nickus de Vos <bigboy529@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:25:55 +0200
I don't think FS would have much of a say if or when Microsoft goes
with their own intigrated screen reader. FS might fight but fighting
microsoft will be a lost battle for any company smaller than google or
apple.
On 9/13/11, D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> This is true... But as the push for windows8 is for tablets, they're going
> to try and improve it for that. Ut the problem is, most of those tablets
> still use ddr2 ram, not even ddr3. This shouldn't matter, but it sort of
> does. Most ddr2 ram systems run at 667 or 800mhz, verry few systems use
> 1066mhz ddr2 ram.
> I still wonder what the times would be like on that same system if they did
> a real cold boot (which microsoft says it will live as an option), instead
> of using the hybrid boot.
>
> D!J!X!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 12:50 PM
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: OT: Fwd: Re: [BCT] Microsoft demos super fast boot
> times in Windows 8
>
> Good observation on the SSD part, a HDD will already slow your boot down, a
> larger HDD will slow it down more and the fuller your drive gets the slower
> your boot time. the laptop in question has a I7 processor with 8 GB ddr3
> memmory, most average pc users which by the way makes up for 88% of windows
> users, don't even come close to those specs they are more than happy with a
> much slower processor and less memmory so basically serious gamers and the
> few power users without macs will come close to the 10 seconds for the rest,
> sure it will be faster but doubt if it will come close to 10 seconds for
> most.
>
> On 9/13/11, D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Without getting too out of hand on the off topic, windows startup time
>> could be achievable on a good number of current hardware systems using
>> the new boot system, though I doubt they could do cold boot. Why?
>> Because if you've read the windows blog or the article on PCWorld or
>> similar magazine, they're not using a real "cold boot." They're using
>> a hybrid process where the kernel (the heart of the OS) is written to
>> a small hibernation file-like place on the hard drive. This is then
>> loaded to memory and other esential processes/services started. This
>> is how the 8 seconds is achieved. One of the biggest differences with
>> windows8, is that they'll be doing something they should have done a
>> while back in vista, that is, using all available CPU cores to start
>> asynchronus processes/services (that is, services that can startup
>> independently from each other). By doing this, windows can start
>> 2 or more services at a time, and since the kernel is already loaded
>> to ram, they've effectively reducing boot times.
>> You can't however compare cold boot to this, or say 8 seconds cold
>> boot, because it just isn't; this is hybrid. Though they are reducing
>> alot of legacy services and making things smoother from the get go, it
>> will reduce the boot time, I'm just not sure by how much... Also,
>> remember they're using an ssd drive on the laptop, that in itself
>> makes a hek of a difference;
>> windows7 starts up and runs a bit faster on an ssd, as compared to a
>> standard drive. And it's not clear if the machine was using a hybrid
>> bios/efi system. Microsoft has even admitted that systems that support
>> and include a hybrid bios/efi system boot faster. They're just trying
>> to get a faster bootup so that when windows8 is installed on tablets,
>> users won't have to wait for their tablets to boot after 1 minute
>> powerups, while iOS and Android users have already loaded their emails
>> and are reading the latest headlines lol.
>>
>> One of the good things I can see about narrator becoming a beast is
>> integration with the OS. As of now, some screens in windows provide
>> more information when read with narrator than they do when read with
>> jaws, and this includes jaws cursoring through the entire screen to
>> find that same info. Windows update is a good example. Guess If
>> microsoft can bind it to the OS and get access to under the hood
>> stuff, we could do some damage with it, specially if they open up a
>> scripting line through something like VBScript which is already well
>> tighed to windows as well. If programs follow this pattern or
>> microsoft starts pushing the buttons for them to do so, we might get
>> better accessibility. They certainly have the power (industrywise) to
>> do it, let's just hope they do, and that it doesn't become another
> blunder...
>>
>> Just my 2 cents (cuz economy is rough), D!J!X!
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dominique
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:17 AM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] OT: Fwd: Re: [BCT] Microsoft demos super fast boot
>> times in Windows 8
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [BCT] Microsoft demos super fast boot times in Windows 8
>>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:06:45 -0400
>> From: Bubba <mailto:bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx>
> <bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Reply-To: Blind Cool Tech Mailing List
>> <mailto:bct@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <bct@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: 'Blind Cool Tech Mailing List' <mailto:bct@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <bct@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>> Well, I think FS if any way possible and WE will somehow make their
>> stuff
>>
>> work. I don't see them throwing their hands in the air and saying we
>> cannot
>>
>> do this and just go under. I think MS will put out some kind of UPI
>> for
>>
>> people to use not just screen readers but for makers of application
>> and
>>
>> such. I do think they will start in this version making their screen
>> reader
>>
>> to be one of the choice for blind users. It might take a couple of
>> years and
>>
>> version but I think they are going to try to follow apple example with
>> their
>>
>> screen reader and accessibility. It will start with the PC and I think
>> move
>>
>> to the windows Mobile platform. But this is JMT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sign,
>>
>> Bubba
>>
>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: bct-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> [mailto:bct-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of chris
>> hallsworth
>>
>> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:07 PM
>>
>> To: Blind Cool Tech Mailing List
>>
>> Subject: Re: [BCT] Microsoft demos super fast boot times in Windows 8
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sure the companies will work it out somehow. They may just have to
>>
>> rely on UIA support or consider implementing display hooks like System
>>
>> Access and recently NVDA does.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Hallsworth
>>
>> Sent from Thunderbird
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/09/2011 16:25, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an observation that will doubtless raise some questions.
>>> Windows
>>
>>> 8 will not use mirror drivers. Big deal? I think maybe yes. Why? Simple.
>>
>>> Screen readers such as JAWS and Window-Eyes rely on mirror drivers to
>>
>>> work. I cannot help but wonder how windows screen readers will adapt.
>>> It
>>
>>> would indeed be interesting if the big two cannot adapt but NVDA can
>>> and
>>
>>> will.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Now, you might be surprised that I, a Mac user, would raise such a
>>
>>> point. Well, let us just say that I chose not to resist.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Skype name:
>>
>>> barefootedray
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Facebook:
>>
>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>> <http://m.facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1?refid=0>
>> <http://m.facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1?refid=0>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:14 AM, chris hallsworth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> Microsoft has a surprise for users tired of waiting forever while
>>
>>>> their computers boot up. It will take less than 10 seconds for a
>>
>>>> Windows 8 PC to go from powered down to the start screen, according
>>>> to
>>
>>>> a Microsoft video demonstration. The speedy boot is thanks to a new
>>
>>>> hybrid system that mixes processes used in cold boots and
>>>> hibernation
>>
>>>> mode. Microsoft showed off the new functionality in yet another blog
>>
>>>> post on its Building Windows 8 blog.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> The less than 10 second boot time Microsoft displayed was on a
>>>> laptop
>>
>>>> with a Core i7-2620M Sandy Bridge processor, 8GB RAM and a 160GB
>>
>>>> solid-state drive. Results using other hardware may vary. Microsoft
>>
>>>> tested 30 PCs comparing Windows 8 fast startup times to Windows 7
>>>> cold
>>
>>>> boots. The most dramatic drop in time was for a PC (specs were
>>
>>>> undisclosed) that went from a more than 70 second cold boot time in
>>
>>>> Windows 7 to about 20 seconds on a Windows 8 fast startup.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Thanks to the influence of tablets and smartphones, users are more
>>
>>>> accustomed than ever to having instant-on access to their devices.
>>
>>>> This can make it feel as though you've stepped back into the Dark
>>>> Ages
>>
>>>> while you wait a minute or two for your PC to boot. Nevertheless,
>>>> more
>>
>>>> than half of all PC users (57 percent of desktop users and 45
>>>> percent
>>
>>>> of laptop users) opt to turn their devices off instead of letting
>>>> them
>>
>>>> go into sleep or hibernation mode, from which the computer can
>>>> resume
>>
>>>> much faster, according to Microsoft data.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Reasons for preferring shutdown vary, Microsoft says, from wanting
>>>> to
>>
>>>> save on power to preferring to start a session fresh with no
>>>> leftover
>>
>>>> processes from earlier (I suspect that another group of people avoid
>>
>>>> sleep and hibernate because it never works quite properly on their PCs).
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> But even though a slight majority prefer to shut down, many Windows
>>>> PC
>>
>>>> users do use sleep and hibernate modes instead of cold boots. In
>>
>>>> Windows 8, Microsoft wanted to create a shutdown process that would
>>
>>>> appeal to both types of users, by achieving three basic goals:
>>>> nearly
>>
>>>> zero power draw when the computer is shut off, a fresh session after
>>
>>>> boot, and a quick startup time.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> To reach these targets, Windows 8's default shutdown mode performs
>>
>>>> what it refers to as a "session 0" hibernation. Basically, the
>>
>>>> computer shuts down normally, except that it saves the Windows
>>>> kernel
>>
>>>> session to a hibernation file prior to shutting down. In Windows 7,
>>
>>>> the kernel session gets shut down completely--the kernel is the OS's
>>
>>>> core component that acts as a link between applications and data
>>
>>>> processing at the hardware level. Storing the kernel session results
>>
>>>> in a small hibernation file that the system can read back into
>>>> memory
>>
>>>> in much less time than it takes to start everything up from a
>>
>>>> traditional cold boot, according to Microsoft.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> The new faster startup time also takes advantage of multicore
>>>> systems
>>
>>>> by using all of the cores in parallel to speed the work of reading
>>>> the
>>
>>>> hibernation file. Microsoft says that this multicore process will
>>>> help
>>
>>>> your system resume from regular hibernate mode more quickly as well.
>>
>>>> The Windows maker found that PCs with a Unified Extensible Firmware
>>
>>>> Interface (UEFI) instead of a traditional BIOS tend to achieve
>>>> faster
>>
>>>> boot times under the new system, too.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> If you who need a traditional cold shutdown to install new hardware
>>>> on
>>
>>>> your PC or if you want one because you like it the old way,
>>>> Microsoft
>>
>>>> allows you to revert to the old shutdown method either permanently
>>
>>>> (through a setting in the user interface--probably in the Control
>>
>>>> Panel, though Microsoft didn't explain this fully) or as a one-time
>>
>>>> occurrence from the command prompt.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Windows isn't the only PC operating system to support speedy boots.
>>
>>>> Google's browser-only Chromebooks have fast boot times, and Apple's
>>
>>>> MacBook Air line also claims instant-on functionality.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> If you can't get enough Windows 8 news, check out PCWorld on
>>>> Tuesday,
>>
>>>> September 13 when Microsoft is expected to provide even more details
>>
>>>> about its forthcoming OS during the company's BUILD conference.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Windows 8 Fast Boot:
>>
>>>> --
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Chris Hallsworth
>>
>>>> Sent from Thunderbird
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>>> BCT mailing list
>>
>>>> BCT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:BCT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> <mailto:BCT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>> http://lists.blind-planet.com/mailman/listinfo/bct_lists.blind-plane
>>>> t.com
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>> BCT mailing list
>>
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>>
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>>> .com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
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