[bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene Breaks

  • From: "Shelley L. Rhodes" <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:33:17 -0500

With my version of duxbury, if you want a blank line to show up, you have to 
put three blank lines.

Shelley L. Rhodes M.A., VRT, CTVI
and Guinevere, Golden lady Guide
juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
Graduate Alumni Association Board
www.guidedogs.com

More than Any other time, When i hold a beloved book in my hand, my 
limitations fall from me, my spirit is free.
- Helen Keller

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:45 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene 
Breaks


It's better to put the asterisks in between changes of scene for another
reason: The braille translator seems to remove all blank lines from books,
so braille readers won't get them in their versions. I have yet to see a
blank line in a brf version of a Bookshare book - even where I know they
were in the file I submitted or validated. So if you don't put the asterisks
in, braille readers will not see the blank line that a print reader would
see indicating change of scene or passage of time. I have found that some
books put them in even if the scene changes in the middle of a page. For
those that don't, I now put them in myself.

Evan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 5:05 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene
Breaks


>I am *so* glad that I waited to reply to Eric until I
> finished reading all my mail. Thank you, Mayrie, for
> answering him so promptly and accurately--and Eric,
> you made it relatively easy by figuring everything out
> correctly.
>
> And actually, your last paragraph will help me to do
> better validations. Where there are asterisks in the
> print book, I put them in, but where the are double
> spaces to indicate change of scene, I've been putting
> double or triple spaces. Noting that you say that that
> is confusing and asterisks make it easier to
> understand, henceforth I shall do that with a line
> space before and after. Thank you for the information.
>
> G.Cindy
> --- Mayrie ReNae <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Hi Eric!
>>
>>          You're awesome!  You've got it all correct!
>>  Surround both
>> page numbers and page breaks with blank lines.  So,
>> your pages will
>> look like this:
>>
>> Page break
>> Blank line
>> Page number
>> Blank line
>> Text on the page
>> Blank line
>> Next page break.
>>
>>          You are absolutely right, the concensus is
>> that page numbers
>> at the tops of pages makes navigation easier.
>> Putting them at the
>> tops of pages is not required, but many of us do
>> move them there when
>> they appear at the bottom.
>>
>>          Inserting asterisks to denote scene changes
>> is just what
>> many of us also do.  It's terrific, and thoughtful.
>>
>>          Now, as for chapter headings.  I'll try not
>> to wax terribly
>> verbose on this.  When page numbers appear at the
>> tops of all pages,
>> your chapter headings will not be deleted.  Though
>> it may not be
>> perfectly in accordance with the printed book, when
>> just a numeral
>> indicates a chapter heading, I add the word Chapter,
>> as you
>> stated.  I do this so that an inexperienced
>> validator won't
>> accidentally think that a single character on a line
>> is a scanning
>> error and remove it.
>>
>>          If, for some reason, you have a book in
>> which the page
>> numbers appear at the bottoms of pages, and you do
>> not feel inclined
>> to move them, you can still protect the chapter
>> heading from being
>> stripped.  Just insert the page number at the top of
>> each page
>> containing a chapter heading as well as leaving it
>> at the
>> bottom.  Chapter headings need, also, to be
>> surrounded by blank
>> lines.  A page containing a chapter heading should
>> appear like this:
>>
>> Page break
>> Blank line
>> Page number
>> Blank line
>> Chapter heading
>> Blank line
>> Text on the page
>> Blank line
>> Next page break.
>>
>> When you treat chapter headings as I have described,
>> the page numbers
>> at the tops of the pages that you inserted to
>> protect the chapter
>> headings may well be stripped.  That's okay, because
>> the page number
>> is as you left it at the bottom of the page, and
>> your chapter heading
>> will remain.
>>
>> Just to be thorough, in case you choose not to move
>> page numbers at
>> the bottoms of pages, a page containing text and
>> page number at the
>> bottom should look like this:
>>
>> Page break
>> Blank line
>> Text on the page
>> Blank line
>> Page number
>> Blank line
>> Next page break.
>>
>> Sorry this was such a long note.  Now that you've
>> gotten through it,
>> the short of it is that you have EXACTLY the right
>> ideas about how to
>> handle the things that you asked about.  Carry on!
>> And I just love
>> to work with folks as conscientious, and careful as
>> you are!  Thank you!
>>
>> Peace,
>> Mayrie
>>
>> At 01:01 AM 1/18/2008, you wrote:
>> >Hi.  My name's Eric Troup.  Some of you may
>> remember me because I
>> >used to frequent the Bookshare mailing list.
>> >
>> >I've been looking over the submission guidelines
>> for volunteers and
>> >have a couple questions.
>> >
>> >First, regarding page numbers: I understand that we
>> have to keep the
>> >page numbers sequential to match the book.  I
>> assume, therefore,
>> >that although headers ought to be removed (page
>> headrs, I mean), the
>> >page number itself should remain.  Is this correct?
>>  Furthermore, if
>> >the book has page numbers on the bottom of each
>> page, oughtn't we
>> >put them at the top instead, for ease of reference?
>> >
>> >And while on the subject of pages, when I look at a
>> .rtf document
>> >using Wordpad, there's only a line break between
>> the end of one page
>> >and the beginning of another.  No real page break
>> at all.  (I
>> >currently don't have Microsoft Word, but if memory
>> serves, it did in
>> >fact let you know when you moved onto a new page of
>> an .rtf
>> >file.)  Should we be putting a blank line above and
>> below the page
>> >number at the top of a page?
>> >
>> >My next question concerns chapter headings.  Once,
>> I had occasion to
>> >read the copy of a book I'd submitted after it'd
>> been posted to
>> >Bookshare, and found to my slight annoyance that
>> the chapter
>> >headings were missing.  Now, in this book, the
>> chapter heading
>> >consisted of a number.  That's it.  Just a line
>> with a 1 or 2 or
>> >what-have-you.  Those lines were, apparently, being
>> deleted
>> >automatically because I made sure I put them in.
>> (The book as
>> >scanned had no headings at all either, but I know
>> having read other
>> >books in the same series with an Optacon that the
>> chapter number is
>> >there, it's just enclosed in a graphic which the
>> OCR software can't
>> >usually read.  In my recent submissions, I solved
>> this problem
>> >thusly: if the chapter heading was "1," I'd write
>> "Chapter 1" in its
>> >place.  If the heading was "One," I'd wrie "Chapter
>> One"
>> >instead.  Should I stop doing this?  Is that
>> considered editing an
>> >author's work?
>> >
>> >My final question involves scene breaks which are
>> normally
>> >designated with a double-space in printed material.
>>  Reading
>> >Bookshare books, I've sometimes found it jarring,
>> trying to figure
>> >out what's going on.  Obvoiusly, context usually
>> shows me that a new
>> >scene has started, but sometimes that takes a
>> paragraph or two,
>> >particularly if the previous scene ended with
>> dialogue and the new
>> >scene begins with dialogue.  I noticed that in
>> printed works, when a
>> >scene ends at the end of a page, the scene is shown
>> to be ending
>> >with three asterisks on an otherwise blank line ("*
>> * *").  So, I
>> >took it upon myself to simply insert these
>> asterisks into a book
>> >where there was normally a double-space between
>> scenes.  I find
>> >that, for myself, this makes the experience of
>> reading a book with a
>> >speech synthesizer much easier, since I don't have
>> to distract
>> >myself from the story long enough to figure out why
>> what I'm reading
>> >doesn't make much sense.  Similar to my question
>> about chapter
>> >headings, is my inserting the asterisks considered
>> editing the
>> >author's work?  Should I stop doing this in my
>> Bookshare submissions?
>> >
>> >Thanks.
>> >
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
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