[bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene Breaks

As far as I know, and I'll need to do some more experimenting to be completely positive, Openbook retains the page structure when I load an RTF file into it. Having said this, I should add that I've only tried loading RTF files into Openbook which were created *by* Openbook, so this could tip the scales of my results a bit.


----- Original Message ----- From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:16 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene Breaks



Prat, I do not think anything has changed in Wordpad, and he says there is
only a line between pages.  He will not be able to insert hard page beaks
with Wordpad.

Sue S.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 5:08 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene
Breaks


The only thing that concerns me in Eric's message is that he uses Wordpad to validate. Wordpad does not keep page breaks. Unless something has changed,
the RTF file will not have the correct breaks.  Unless there is a new
version that I'm not aware of (or do not have), this might be trouble.

-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Grandma Cindy
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 5:06 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers, Chapter Headings and Scene
Breaks

I am *so* glad that I waited to reply to Eric until I
finished reading all my mail. Thank you, Mayrie, for
answering him so promptly and accurately--and Eric,
you made it relatively easy by figuring everything out
correctly.

And actually, your last paragraph will help me to do
better validations. Where there are asterisks in the
print book, I put them in, but where the are double
spaces to indicate change of scene, I've been putting
double or triple spaces. Noting that you say that that
is confusing and asterisks make it easier to
understand, henceforth I shall do that with a line
space before and after. Thank you for the information.

G.Cindy
--- Mayrie ReNae <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Eric!

         You're awesome!  You've got it all correct!
 Surround both
page numbers and page breaks with blank lines.  So,
your pages will
look like this:

Page break
Blank line
Page number
Blank line
Text on the page
Blank line
Next page break.

         You are absolutely right, the concensus is
that page numbers
at the tops of pages makes navigation easier.
Putting them at the
tops of pages is not required, but many of us do
move them there when
they appear at the bottom.

         Inserting asterisks to denote scene changes
is just what
many of us also do.  It's terrific, and thoughtful.

         Now, as for chapter headings.  I'll try not
to wax terribly
verbose on this.  When page numbers appear at the
tops of all pages,
your chapter headings will not be deleted.  Though
it may not be
perfectly in accordance with the printed book, when
just a numeral
indicates a chapter heading, I add the word Chapter,
as you
stated.  I do this so that an inexperienced
validator won't
accidentally think that a single character on a line
is a scanning
error and remove it.

         If, for some reason, you have a book in
which the page
numbers appear at the bottoms of pages, and you do
not feel inclined
to move them, you can still protect the chapter
heading from being
stripped.  Just insert the page number at the top of
each page
containing a chapter heading as well as leaving it
at the
bottom.  Chapter headings need, also, to be
surrounded by blank
lines.  A page containing a chapter heading should
appear like this:

Page break
Blank line
Page number
Blank line
Chapter heading
Blank line
Text on the page
Blank line
Next page break.

When you treat chapter headings as I have described,
the page numbers
at the tops of the pages that you inserted to
protect the chapter
headings may well be stripped.  That's okay, because
the page number
is as you left it at the bottom of the page, and
your chapter heading
will remain.

Just to be thorough, in case you choose not to move
page numbers at
the bottoms of pages, a page containing text and
page number at the
bottom should look like this:

Page break
Blank line
Text on the page
Blank line
Page number
Blank line
Next page break.

Sorry this was such a long note.  Now that you've
gotten through it,
the short of it is that you have EXACTLY the right
ideas about how to
handle the things that you asked about.  Carry on!
And I just love
to work with folks as conscientious, and careful as
you are!  Thank you!

Peace,
Mayrie

At 01:01 AM 1/18/2008, you wrote:
>Hi.  My name's Eric Troup.  Some of you may
remember me because I
>used to frequent the Bookshare mailing list.
>
>I've been looking over the submission guidelines
for volunteers and
>have a couple questions.
>
>First, regarding page numbers: I understand that we
have to keep the
>page numbers sequential to match the book.  I
assume, therefore,
>that although headers ought to be removed (page
headrs, I mean), the
>page number itself should remain.  Is this correct?
 Furthermore, if
>the book has page numbers on the bottom of each
page, oughtn't we
>put them at the top instead, for ease of reference?
>
>And while on the subject of pages, when I look at a
.rtf document
>using Wordpad, there's only a line break between
the end of one page
>and the beginning of another.  No real page break
at all.  (I
>currently don't have Microsoft Word, but if memory
serves, it did in
>fact let you know when you moved onto a new page of
an .rtf
>file.)  Should we be putting a blank line above and
below the page
>number at the top of a page?
>
>My next question concerns chapter headings.  Once,
I had occasion to
>read the copy of a book I'd submitted after it'd
been posted to
>Bookshare, and found to my slight annoyance that
the chapter
>headings were missing.  Now, in this book, the
chapter heading
>consisted of a number.  That's it.  Just a line
with a 1 or 2 or
>what-have-you.  Those lines were, apparently, being
deleted
>automatically because I made sure I put them in.
(The book as
>scanned had no headings at all either, but I know
having read other
>books in the same series with an Optacon that the
chapter number is
>there, it's just enclosed in a graphic which the
OCR software can't
>usually read.  In my recent submissions, I solved
this problem
>thusly: if the chapter heading was "1," I'd write
"Chapter 1" in its
>place.  If the heading was "One," I'd wrie "Chapter
One"
>instead.  Should I stop doing this?  Is that
considered editing an
>author's work?
>
>My final question involves scene breaks which are
normally
>designated with a double-space in printed material.
 Reading
>Bookshare books, I've sometimes found it jarring,
trying to figure
>out what's going on.  Obvoiusly, context usually
shows me that a new
>scene has started, but sometimes that takes a
paragraph or two,
>particularly if the previous scene ended with
dialogue and the new
>scene begins with dialogue.  I noticed that in
printed works, when a
>scene ends at the end of a page, the scene is shown
to be ending
>with three asterisks on an otherwise blank line ("*
* *").  So, I
>took it upon myself to simply insert these
asterisks into a book
>where there was normally a double-space between
scenes.  I find
>that, for myself, this makes the experience of
reading a book with a
>speech synthesizer much easier, since I don't have
to distract
>myself from the story long enough to figure out why
what I'm reading
>doesn't make much sense.  Similar to my question
about chapter
>headings, is my inserting the asterisks considered
editing the
>author's work?  Should I stop doing this in my
Bookshare submissions?
>
>Thanks.
>

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