atw: Re: Greek, etc
- From: "Matthew da Silva" <mdasilva@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 10:34:12 +1000
Why strange? The Macquarie third edition also lists ‘woffle’ (‘yelp’) as a
root, but attributes it to British dialect. It is, they say, ‘frequentative’:
“expressing repetition of the action denoted by the underlying verb”. Eg
‘wrestle’ from ‘wrest’.
Matthew
________________________________
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MATILDA REICH
Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2007 10:25 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Greek, etc
Strange dictionary you got there, Matthew, not sure of the "yelp" factor.
According to Macquarie Dictionary, c 1991 : "Waffle" -
1. to speak or write vaguely, pointlessly, and at considerable length.
2. to talk or write nonsense.
4. verbosity in the service of superficial thought
4. nonsense, twaddle.
>>> mdasilva@xxxxxxxxxxx 8/05/07 8:39:44 am >>>
Waffle, according to the Merriam Webster is �frequentative of obsolete woff to
yelp, of imitative origin�. I�m not sure what �imitative origin� means:
onomatopoeia?
Matthew
________________________________
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hallett, Michelle
Sent: Tuesday, 8 May 2007 8:09 AM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Greek, etc
Why not just opt for clear writing regardless of the origin of the individual
words?
Unsure if your writing is clear? Use a reviewer, preferably from your target
audience.
Even technical writing is not a science and there are no hard and fast rules,
only guidelines. I have seen clear, easily understood text with many Latin and
Greek-derived words and poorly worded text where most of the words were
Germanic in origin.
Michelle
P.S. Case in point, Bob's use of the non-existent word 'woofle' in the email
below is clearly understood from context and it's similarity to the correct
(albeit colloquial) word 'waffle'. (At least, I think it's 'waffle', I haven't
seen it written that often. Is it Germanic, Greek or Swahili? Maybe it's
French, le waffle, anyone?)
P.P.S. I love studying and discussing the history of language and derivation of
words. But when I write I like to use all the language and enjoy finding the
right word, regardless of derivation, which makes the meaning of the text clear.
________________________________
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Trussler
Sent: Monday, 7 May 2007 10:18 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Greek, etc
James,
I like it, but I avoid abbreviated Latin.
Abbreviations must be used carefully and Latin abbreviations are just silly, so
avoid them."
Why use eg when for example works well, or even better?
Why use ie and run the risk of confusion with eg when 'that is' says it
unambiguously?
Why use etc. when and so on is better?
Why use et al when and others is simpler?
Just something I always put in my writing standards, and woofle on about when
given the opportunity.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Bob T
On 5/7/07, James Hunt <jameshunt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 07 May 2007, at 1:02 PM, Christine Kent wrote:
Basic rule is speak English not Latin (or Greek, or Latin via French).
English words tend to be simple single syllable words that everyone
understands; Latin and Greek have many syllables and are designed to
differentiate between the working classes (the Celts etc) and the upper classes
(the invading Romans, Normans etc. )
There are many polysyllabic words of Latin and Greek origin in English.
They are often technically precise and appropriate in context. However, the
idea that all Greek-derived words are polysyllabic monstrosities designed to
obfuscate or serve some political purpose is simply not true, and dropping
Greek-derived words from English texts, or limiting their use, is not a
practical idea. I give you a list of short, common, Greek words in English -
from allergy to horoscope (which starts with a rough-breathing omega):
allergy, amoral, anaesthetic, apathy, arctic, arithmetic, asthma,
abyss, agate, archangel, angle, anchorage, aerobics, athlete, academy, acme
[features in RoadRunner cartoons, along with Ajax, the Greek hero], acoustic,
guitar [through Spanish], alphabet, amygdala [heard on a science program on
television - Greek there too - recently], anorexia [but obesity is Latin],
.....
...organ, police, programmer, sarcasm, philosophy, telephone, system,
chaos, chiropractor, psychology, idea, cinema, drama, climax, coma, dyspepsia,
zone, catastrophe, nectar, hydrogen, electric,.....
...phenomena, pedophile [in newspapers a lot, a few years ago],
rhododendron, rheumatism, Mesopotamia [had a revival in the political press
recently], centre, calypso, idiot [very, very common in popular discourse!],
theory, paradox, geography, autopsy [amazingly frequent on television],
asylum...
The modern working classes use a lot of these words. If you refer to an
acoustic guitar, or an electric guitar, or asylum seekers, or complain that
someone doesn't know their alphabet, or go to water the rhododendrons, or
mention your mobile phone, you are using Greek. It's everywhere.
The words may well have originated in a literate class and filtered
down the social scale in some past era, but it would be hard for us to do
without these words today. I once came across a claim by a Greek philologist
that there are at least 40,000 Greek loan words in English. I have no way of
checking this, but considering the amount of Greek we use in everyday speech
and writing, I would not be surprised if the claim were true.
In the final analysis [yes, that's Greek too], the old rule applies:
know your audience, and use words that the audience will understand. It doesn't
matter where the words came from. Any attempt to limit your text to words
derived from only one of the historic strands of English is a pointless
exercise. It's all English now, whether it came from Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Greek,
Norman French, Dutch, Hindi, Chinese...
JH
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