Strange dictionary you got there, Matthew, not sure of the "yelp" factor. According to Macquarie Dictionary, c 1991 : "Waffle" - 1. to speak or write vaguely, pointlessly, and at considerable length. 2. to talk or write nonsense. 4. verbosity in the service of superficial thought 4. nonsense, twaddle. >>> mdasilva@xxxxxxxxxxx 8/05/07 8:39:44 am >>> Waffle, according to the Merriam Webster is "frequentative of obsolete woff to yelp, of imitative origin". I'm not sure what 'imitative origin' means: onomatopoeia? Matthew From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hallett, Michelle Sent: Tuesday, 8 May 2007 8:09 AM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: Greek, etc Why not just opt for clear writing regardless of the origin of the individual words? Unsure if your writing is clear? Use a reviewer, preferably from your target audience. Even technical writing is not a science and there are no hard and fast rules, only guidelines. I have seen clear, easily understood text with many Latin and Greek-derived words and poorly worded text where most of the words were Germanic in origin. Michelle P.S. Case in point, Bob's use of the non-existent word 'woofle' in the email below is clearly understood from context and it's similarity to the correct (albeit colloquial) word 'waffle'. (At least, I think it's 'waffle', I haven't seen it written that often. Is it Germanic, Greek or Swahili? Maybe it's French, le waffle, anyone?) P.P.S. I love studying and discussing the history of language and derivation of words. But when I write I like to use all the language and enjoy finding the right word, regardless of derivation, which makes the meaning of the text clear. From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Trussler Sent: Monday, 7 May 2007 10:18 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: Greek, etcJames, I like it, but I avoid abbreviated Latin. Abbreviations must be used carefully and Latin abbreviations are just silly, so avoid them." Why use eg when for example works well, or even better? Why use ie and run the risk of confusion with eg when 'that is' says it unambiguously? Why use etc. when and so on is better? Why use et al when and others is simpler? Just something I always put in my writing standards, and woofle on about when given the opportunity. Thanks for the opportunity. Bob T On 5/7/07, James Hunt <jameshunt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: On 07 May 2007, at 1:02 PM, Christine Kent wrote: Basic rule is speak English not Latin (or Greek, or Latin via French). English words tend to be simple single syllable words that everyone understands; Latin and Greek have many syllables and are designed to differentiate between the working classes (the Celts etc) and the upper classes (the invading Romans, Normans etc. ) There are many polysyllabic words of Latin and Greek origin in English. They are often technically precise and appropriate in context. However, the idea that all Greek-derived words are polysyllabic monstrosities designed to obfuscate or serve some political purpose is simply not true, and dropping Greek-derived words from English texts, or limiting their use, is not a practical idea. I give you a list of short, common, Greek words in English - from allergy to horoscope (which starts with a rough-breathing omega): allergy, amoral, anaesthetic, apathy, arctic, arithmetic, asthma, abyss, agate, archangel, angle, anchorage, aerobics, athlete, academy, acme [features in RoadRunner cartoons, along with Ajax, the Greek hero], acoustic, guitar [through Spanish], alphabet, amygdala [heard on a science program on television - Greek there too - recently], anorexia [but obesity is Latin], ..... ...organ, police, programmer, sarcasm, philosophy, telephone, system, chaos, chiropractor, psychology, idea, cinema, drama, climax, coma, dyspepsia, zone, catastrophe, nectar, hydrogen, electric,..... ...phenomena, pedophile [in newspapers a lot, a few years ago], rhododendron, rheumatism, Mesopotamia [had a revival in the political press recently], centre, calypso, idiot [very, very common in popular discourse!], theory, paradox, geography, autopsy [amazingly frequent on television], asylum... The modern working classes use a lot of these words. If you refer to an acoustic guitar, or an electric guitar, or asylum seekers, or complain that someone doesn't know their alphabet, or go to water the rhododendrons, or mention your mobile phone, you are using Greek. It's everywhere. The words may well have originated in a literate class and filtered down the social scale in some past era, but it would be hard for us to do without these words today. I once came across a claim by a Greek philologist that there are at least 40,000 Greek loan words in English. I have no way of checking this, but considering the amount of Greek we use in everyday speech and writing, I would not be surprised if the claim were true. In the final analysis [yes, that's Greek too], the old rule applies: know your audience, and use words that the audience will understand. It doesn't matter where the words came from. Any attempt to limit your text to words derived from only one of the historic strands of English is a pointless exercise. It's all English now, whether it came from Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Greek, Norman French, Dutch, Hindi, Chinese... JH ***************************************************************************** This email, and any files transmitted with it, are confidential and intended for use by the addressee only. The confidential nature of the information contained in the email and/or file attachment is not waived, lost or destroyed if it is sent to other than the addressee. Use or dissemination of the information contained in the email and/or file attachment, by a recipient other than the addressee, may cause commercial damage to both/either the sender and/or addressee. If you are not the addressee of this email/file attachment contact the sender immediately and delete this email/file attachment. 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