I know what you mean about breaking the spines of books. My daughter purchased a book at a library book sale which was published about 1897 or something like that. It is so old I am afraid to scan it for fear of damaging it, and she doesn't live at home anymore and is not available to read it for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damon Rose" <damon.rose@xxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 4:52 AM Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > ... And when you break the spine of a library book in order to scan it, > they're usually not impressed. > > We have to recognise here that in the time that it takes for you to scan > one book, sighted friends or colleagues could have immediately started > reading a book and skimmed about 10 others very satisfactorily within > the same time period. > > We need to take the scanning out of the equation. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf > Of Barry > Sent: 15 April 2005 09:39 > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > I know what you mean. When you have spent 3 hours scanning a book from > the > library, you're a bit loathe to delete it when you take the book back. > There's also the expense of buying OCR programmes that are half decent. > > Barry H > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tyrer, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Tyrer@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:30 AM > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > I have no problem paying for books - book sharing isn't about getting > free > books. What really pisses me off though is having to spend three > bleeding > hours scanning the bugger in before I can read it! > > JT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf > Of Ray's Home > Sent: 14 April 2005 16:34 > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > > > Well Angel, if I might join in, lending libraries here in the UK are a > public service, well what's left of them! The notion of public service > has > taken quite a pasting here in the last quarter century so, not > surprisingly, > you are often hard pressed to find the latest books there. > > As for 'rational' arguments for stealing, well certain theologians in > the > middle ages did argue that stealing food for survival was OK, just as > much > as you needed to stay alive that is. I guess Daman is arguing for the > right > for food for the soul, as man/woman does not live by food alone. > > I can only say that what's left of my reason is down to a lot of > reading, > much of it on tape, when I was very down and depressed. The sheer farce > of > trying to study at a higher level without anything approaching the > breadth > of material available to other students has to be gone through to be > believed. > > I still have just enough sight to buy books in print occasionally and > its > certainly a sad fact that your average high street bookshop these days > has > many times more books available to buy than we get our hands on in all > the > various formats. I just wonder how much those here would be prepared to > pay > to own a copy if that were an option. Seems to me that unabridged audio > > books are always going to be at a premium price although I do not see > that > the margin has to be as high as it is now. > > Obviously, this is a very involved subject when you get down to it. I > just > wonder how greater percentage of text material can and will be made > available, and more to the point, how? Taking the risk of resurrecting > the > format wars here, Braille versus audio versus computer etc. just how > will > the extreme demand for stuff in whatever format we want hold up to > reality? > > By the way, I've shortened the whole message here as, apart from > wondering > offoff the original topic, I feared it would excede the file size > allowed on > this list! > Ray > > Personal emails: Email me at > mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angel" > > > Libraries give books for free because of their community obligation, > > not because of a human rite any may have. Have you tried to get the > > books you seek from sources like Audible.com. The people there have > > gone out of their way to make their site and books accessible to us. > > There is no rational explanation for stealing. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Damon Rose" > > > >> Why shouldn't access to the latest cultural input be seen as a human > > right? Libraries give reference books and novels out for free for > > similar reasons, surely? > >> > >> What about classic books of our time, thos that are social > >> commentaries > > such as 1984 or Catcher in the Rye? They're touchstones in common > > parliance, > > using the term 'big brother society' uses a character from a novel to > > shortcut, yet also add colour to, an explanation about a complicated > > concept > > that was neatly wrapped up by Orwell. > >> > >> Books like Turn of the Century in 1999 really tapped into the > > technological and social zeitgeist. > >> > >> Books such as Fast Food Nation or Jon Snow's autobiography Shooting > > History, for instance, are not exactly reference books but contain an > > awful > > lot of important and significant commentary and information. > >> > >> It's hard to draw the line and there's no good reason to continue to > >> make > > books inaccessible. > >> > >> I would prefer to pay publishers and authors for their work so that > >> they > > will continue to publish great books. I would like authors to benefit > > from > > my individual purchase. But if books are inaccessible then they kind > of > > have to accept that we steal their texts. > >> > >> In a lot of ways, they are stealing things away from us in the first > > place, we're just steeling it bak again. > >> > >> ...Damon > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > Angel > >> > >> How do you figure having access to the latest novels or whatever you > >> want > > to read is a basic human rite. In which constitution does it say > > this? > > If > > you can't read print you can either purchase a scanner and reading > > software, > > or go to the library and use their equipment for such pursuits. > Though > > basic literacy has been found to be a basic human rite being able to > read > > > your favorite novel is not. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Damon" > > >> > Yes, it's a shame isn't it. > >> > > >> > I download illegally shared eBooks too because I can't read print. > >> > > >> > Access to knowledge and culture is a human right and, I'd say we > >> > can't really describe it as thievery. I'd describe it as taking > >> > something that should rightfully be in our domain anyway. > >> > > >> > It's only thievery if one can get it thru the normal means. If you > > >> > are denied access to it, yet fundamentally it should be a human > >> > right, then > >> you > >> > have to be creative and inventive about gaining access to it. > >> > > >> > ...Damon > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Angel" > >> > > >> > > I would hate to think that to become a part of society one must > >> > > resort > >> to > >> > > thievery. > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > From: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> > > > >> > > > I use exactly the same argument regarding downloading tv shows > >> > > > on > >> > > BitTorrent. If the manufacturers and service providers of things > > >> > > like > >> > TiVo > >> > > and Sky Digital don't bother to make their products accessible > >> > > then I'll steal their content from elsewhere in order that I can > >> > > be part of this > >> > here > >> > > society. Thank you. And yes I'd be happy to see what a > >> > > courtroom made > >> of > >> > > that too. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > Of Tyrer, Jonathan > >> > > > Sent: 13 April 2005 15:42 > >> > > > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > > > Subject: [access-uk] Re: iPod shuffle ready to go? > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > I wonder if I should turn myself into the police for pirating > >> > > > music > >> from > >> > > the Net. None of the pay for music sites are accessible so I am > >> > > forced > >> to > >> > > steal music instead. I'd like to go to court for that I think! > >> > > > > >> > > > JT > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > Damon Rose > >> > > > > >> > > > Here's another solution. Why don't we just all sue Apple? Or > >> > > > mail > >> them > >> > > in our droves? All the faffing around we have to do to gain a > >> > > weeny bit > >> > of > >> > > access, whilst still giving these companies our money, really > >> > > really > >> bugs > >> > > the hell out of me. > >> > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > > -- > DISCLAIMER: > > NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is > confidential and may be privileged. 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