[ZeroBrane Studio] Re: best 2D game environment for a youngster?
- From: Andrew Starks <andrew.starks@xxxxxxxx>
- To: zerobrane <zerobrane@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 16:39:52 -0600
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Rob Probin <rob.probin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My daughter is almost 10 and is also asking about programming. I've
> installed ZBS on her Mac. I plan to start with the ZBS Tutorials (that
> include a graphics turtle, if I remember correctly). ... then perhaps move
> to Love2D (I've done a tiny bit and liked the simplicity a lot - again I'm
> also aware of other frameworks). I've written a few simple basic tutorials
> about Lua as well - although I haven't published them yet; Very simple
> stuff.
>
> Again, it's difficult to gauge how fast she will learn - so one step at a
> time. But I know to keep interest, I'll have to make sure she can do visual
> things. She likes designing graphics in my prototype game (that has a
> graphics editor built in) and has pretty good maths and problem solving
> skills.
>
> There might be some sort of game maker solution where you can start off
> placing objects. I haven't used Yoyo Games solution (for instance), there
> are some reviews below. I'm not sure whether these would be good or bad. As
> a kid I remember things like H.U.R.G. and Games Designer and they put me off
> automated tools.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> P.S. I'm sort of interested in your reasons for looking at Lua. For me it
> sounded much simpler to teach than like C/C++, Python, etc. I considered a
> classic BASIC (like Chipmunk) - but I think something that can generate
> colourful graphics easy might be a benefit...
>
> Reviews:
> https://www.scirra.com/blog/59/construct-2-vs-gamemaker-vs-gamesalad-vs-stencyl
> http://sonicunited.org/forums/index.php?/topic/7206-construct-2-vs-game-maker-vs-mmf2/
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PeGbMvpz4M
>
>
>
>
> On 30/01/2015 20:23, Joe Strout wrote:
>>
>> I've just discovered Zerobrane, and am planning to use it as an
>> educational environment for my 10-year-old son. He's played with Scratch,
>> gone through all the code.org tutorials, and played a number of
>> programming-ish games on his iPad Mini. He's also got decent keyboarding
>> skills thanks to way too many hours playing with typing tutors, and now he
>> wants to try some programming where "you have to type" (like he sees me
>> doing all day).
>>
>> So, Lua seems like a decent fit, and Zerobrane seems like a great IDE for
>> it. The one remaining question is: what 2D/game toolkit should I set up for
>> him?
>>
>> I gave LOVE a quick try and it looks great. I'm also aware of Corona,
>> which has the advantage that (as I understand it) he can actually code on
>> his iPad, though I doubt that will ever be as efficient as a keyboard and
>> mouse. (Hmm, though I suppose he could spend his allowance on a bluetooth
>> keyboard.)
>>
>> What might be ideal is something more like the Scratch environment, where
>> you paint and arrange your sprites visually, and then just attach Lua event
>> handlers to them. I don't know whether such a thing exists, however. (We use
>> Macs, if that matters.)
>>
>> I've just stumbled on this surprisingly large and diverse Lua world, so
>> any pointers you natives can share will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Joe
>>
>
>
I think LOVE is a great choice. I have a 12 year old son and a 9 year
old daughter, so this is something that I've looked at a great deal.
I've also settled on ZBS, but instead of Scratch, I'm going the
Mindstorms Lego EV3
[http://www.lego.com/en-us/mindstorms/products/31313-mindstorms-ev3] +
ev3dev.org route. The ev3dev part is a port of the open-sourced Linux
build that Lego uses. It includes a wickedly simple (well done) api
that makes it trivial to bind to any language that supports file io.
It supports node.js and Lua (naturally) and a handful of others
(python may be in there).
The down side is that it requires a Mindstorm ev3 and some time to
plow through the tutorials, in order to get Lua going. The EV3 and the
time are both significant investments, to be sure.
On the plus side:
1: You get to plow through the installation, which is challenging, but
not in a super-crappy way. there are a couple of easiliy google-able
errors to get past, but meh... Overall, it felt like hacking, which is
a huge part of the fun.
2: When you've got it going, YOU'VE GOT A FREAKING ROBOT TO PLAY WITH!
So, if the kid hates programming or robotics, you've got a decent
platform for your next quadcoptor /3d printer / T3000, etc.
With ZBS, you can run the debugger remotely into the ev3 brain. So,
unlike RobotC or the Lego graphical environment, you save your file,
run the file and line-by-line debug it, if that's your thing.
I mentor for a First Tech Challenge
[http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc] team in Minnesota. I am
enamored with their approach to learning, team building and "gracious
competition", which is a concept that they take extremely seriously.
They use the NXT, which means that they are pretty limited in choices:
RobotC or Lego's development environment. There is a Lua port to that
(pbLua), but it's much more involved to get running.
Having attempted to teach Robot C, I can say... I understand the
attraction of teaching a low-level language. I would say that your
language choice may have a great deal to do with your skill as a
*teacher*, not your skill with a computer.
I would much prefer to start small and with a low level language, on
the theory that it's better to teach what is happening, then to later
explain that "a bunch of stuff was done for you, now that all broke
and now we need to talk about the stack, the heap, pointers, etc."
BUT, I'm not that awesome. I need it to be simple, so that I can keep
the exceptions to a minimum. Consistency and simplicity are my two
best friends and Lua is the best, as far as I've seen, at that.
My .02 cents.
-Andrew
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