[THIN] Re: Worst TS newbie mistake
- From: "Mike Semon" <msemon@xxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:14:20 -0600
RAID 1 is the way to go for OS /swap. You are right about the wasted space
on drives these days. 18GB drives were more than sufficient in most cases.
With 36GB and 54Gb drives and larger you will get more disk space at the
expense of performance and longer regeneration times.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of TheThin
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:45 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Worst TS newbie mistake
I agree with the issue on Raid. My favorite config is a 2U server with
Raid 1. (Dell PE2650)
But, does anyone else get frustrated with the fact that you have to buy
30+ gig drives these days? It just seems a waste for the OS / swap
volumes! Faster, cheaper, smaller drives would seem like something a
vendor could do well with. I don't think any TS I've built recenty
required more than 6 gigs of space (maybe 12 if you want room for lot's
of MS hotfixes!).
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Kosht [mailto:matt.kosht@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Posted At: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:30 AM
Posted To: TheThin
Conversation: [THIN] Re: Worst TS newbie mistake
Subject: [THIN] Re: Worst TS newbie mistake
I agree with you Neil. Sorry to rehash an old thread.
The only significant argument IMO against HW RAID is the added cost.=20
The controller is "baked in" to a lot of new servers so. this argument
becomes less compelling. This also counters the "go cheap" SW RAID
alternative to disk redundancy. Disk drives are much cheaper to boot
(no pun intended). I would argue the labor cost to bring a single disk
TS server back on after a disk crash would certainly pay for the extra
disk. Plus not losing a server out of the farm has plenty of other
benefits (keeping the user from getting kicked out of an active session
as you stated, not decreasing the performance of the farm by having the
users from the bad server spread over less CPU's, etc)
>>> Neil.Braebaum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2/20/2004 10:36:03 AM >>>
You know, I recall a very similar discussion from a while back ;-)
And the flack I got from one guy, particularly, after I stated such, in
response to the "hardware RAID has no place for TS environments" type
argument ;-)
A relatively cheap and easy way of reducing the likelihood of having
downtime on a TS, even if the users can immediately reconnect to another
server - in the main, they can't get back the session they just had. And
for a gain in performance, too, considering that paging is always gonna
happen, whether you've got ample RAM, or not.
Neil
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Mann [mailto:emann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 20 February 2004 15:16
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Worst TS newbie mistake
>=20
> I agree with Matt. It is my firm believe that >every< server
> needs RAID. A standard config would be a 2 diak RAID1 for=20
> the OS/Apps, and a RAID5 for data. You can do this config in=20
> any 2U server on the market. In a 1U server, such as a Dell=20
> PE1650 where you only have 3 disks, then I opt for a 3 disk=20
> RAID5 with 2 containers. Limitations of drive space forms=20
> this configuration.
>=20
> If you want the best speed you can use a RAID0+1 or RAID10
> setup, which should offer slightly better performance then=20
> RAID5, but cost a lot more in disk storage.
>=20
> Putting any server into production without RAID is shooting
> yourself in the foot. Even if I had 1 spare for every server=20
> I ran, I'd still be doing myself a disservice because that=20
> server could loose the OS partition and I have to deal with=20
> moving the data to the new server, which is time consuming,=20
> and could cost thousands of dollars in downtime. If you had=20
> a RAID1, you wouldn't have had any downtime.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Matt Kosht
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:54 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Worst TS newbie mistake
>=20
> I respectfully disagree with not using disk mirroring or RAID
> on TS. =3D20
>=20
> I use RAID1 and RAID5 with great success. Many servers (Dell for
> example) now ship with onboard RAID controllers standard so
> the only extra cost is 1 or 2 disks (appx $250-$500 USD)=3D20
>=20
> Disk read performance is greatly enhanced by RAID5 striping.
> App serving is primarily read performance so Citrix/TS benefits.
>=20
> Even without RAID5, RAID1 is useful on TS. Instead of losing
> a server and having to rebuild/restore and all the time that=20
> will take just pop
> in a new hot swap disk. One disk failure will pay for the=20
> extra disk.
>=20
> I recommend not using the software disk mirroring with NT,W2K
> as it just isn't reliable enough or fast enough.
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