[texbirds] Re: Of class and cameras - my last words on this subject
- From: Brush Freeman <brushfreeman@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: Paul Roisen <roisenp1950@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:04:07 -0500
Lighten up dude!...This is Texas. Folks dig up graves for county birds :-)
**********************************************************************
Brush Freeman
503-551-5150 Cell
120 N. Red Bud Trail. Elgin, Tx. 78621
http://texasnaturenotes.blogspot.com/
Finca Alacranes., Utley,Texas
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Paul Roisen <roisenp1950@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Good afternoon all,
> Thank you for having allowed me to use texbirds as an invaluable
> resource and information gathering tool for my birdie in the great state of
> Texas. Records and record keeping (accepting and not accepting records)
> has always been difficult and often contentious, but it does not have to be
> so.
> As an "outsider" I have been following this conversation first with
> interest then with horror. What started as a reasonable constructive and
> informational sharing discussion has turned into a destructive one.
> As President of the Iowa Ornithologists Union, and having seem some
> horribly harmful emails sent back and forth, I can tell that the damage
> done (intentional or unintentional) by this thread) will have long term
> negative effects. People quit participating, people quit coming to
> meeting, people even leave the groups (statewide or local). Not worth it.
> We are all here because we love birds and birding.
> I know everyone wants the "last word" but, for the sake of your great
> organization I would suggest that this thread be ended immediately--if not
> by the participants then by the moderator. Arizona has a strict policy
> that inappropriate comments and "flame" posting result in at least a
> temporary suspension from the list serve.
> If you "boys" wish to spare and denigrate each other please do it off
> line?
> I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone but it is difficult for
> me to stand on the sidelines as just observe a potentially seriously
> destructive activity.
>
> God Bless,
>
>
> Paul O. Roisen
> Sioux City, IA
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:08 AM, Jay Packer <jay@xxxxxx> wrote:
>
> My participation in Texbirds has often suffered due to a lack of time. I've
> >still try to maintain my birding in the field however.
> >This thread has so many items I wish to respond to. However, I can tell
> I'm
> >going to walk into work a little late this morning just writing this
> reply.
> >
> >At the end of the day, people need to understand that the more remarkable
> a
> >claim is, the more substantial the need for solid documentation. And of
> >course, a photograph will be invaluable for a truly remarkable record. I
> >don't think anybody would dispute that.
> >
> >The rest of it is largely hurt feelings. Some insensitive things have been
> >said. At times I think this was unintentional, but also I think could have
> >been foreseen and avoided upon reflection. Honestly Cameron, I've met you
> a
> >couple of times and found you to be very nice and pleasant. However, the
> >way you phrased your comments about field notes, particularly Heidi's
> field
> >notes, galvanized people to respond and kicked off a bitter thread.
> >
> >As for Anthony's comments, I'm sad to say I just find them rather bizarre.
> >Economic inequality is an unfortunate aspect of our reality today. I sit
> >around and feel sorry for myself that I can only take a few international
> >trips. And then I realize how ridiculously rich I am in the grand scheme
> of
> >things. The same can be said for anyone who reads my message. We are the
> >richest people that have ever lived in the history of humanity, except for
> >a very small number of people that are above us. It really is all
> relative.
> >
> >I've tried hard to never look down on people that are less fortunate than
> >me, who don't have super expensive optics, or who enjoy doing the game of
> >birding in a different way than I do. I never got a sense from this thread
> >that anyone was out to criticize those who couldn't afford or didn't want
> >photographic gear. I'm not sure why that came up or why we need to address
> >it any further.
> >
> >As for the rest of it, maybe I can reply further this evening. I doubt
> I'll
> >have the time though. In the meantime, I'm going to suggest that my school
> >be put on lockdown, lest Abilene gets hit by a stray missile heading to or
> >launched from Lubbock...
> >
> >--
> >Jay Packer
> >(sent from my phone)
> >On Mar 19, 2014 10:21 PM, "Clay Taylor" <Clay.Taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> All -
> >>
> >> There are very few of us that do NOT have a camera in their cell phone,
> >> and it need not be a smart phone. Virtually ALL of the camera phones
> that
> >> I have messed with at bird festivals on the past 10 years will give a
> >> serviceable ID photo when held up to a spotting scope eyepiece, and
> even a
> >> binocular.
> >>
> >> If you have a bird that needs recording, snap a cell phone shot through
> >> you birding optics. Will ithe resulting image make the cover of
> Audubon
> >> Magazine? Unless that bird is an Ivory-billed Woodpecker, heck no!
> Will
> >> it help the TBRC decide to accept your out-of-range or out-of-season
> bird
> >> record? Yes, if you knew how to operate the system, it probably will.
> >>
> >> I got into birding AS a photographer, and in the 1970s virtually NO
> >> birders carried a camera. In an era when you were "supposed to" take
> notes
> >> and make drawings, about 1% of my birding associates did. I was the
> >1%
> >> that carried a camera. Not so anymore.
> >>
> >> No excuses for not at least TRYING to get an image of that IBWO flying
> >> across the road in E TX.
> >>
> >> Clay Taylor
> >> Calallen (Corpus Christi) TX
> >> Clay.taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >> > On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:55 PM, "Brush Freeman" <brushfreeman@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Well, I gotta give that round to Cameron...If you got the money to
> chase
> >> > birds all over Texas you can swing for a decent camera...Matter of
> >> > priorities, or if you are like me , or you are a crappy photographer
> that
> >> > just hates taking photos of anything that will not sit still ...IE
> simple
> >> > stuff like sunsets, rocks, flowers, toenails etc.
> >> > **********************************************************************
> >> > Brush Freeman
> >> > 503-551-5150 Cell
> >> > 120 N. Red Bud Trail. Elgin, Tx. 78621
> >> > http://texasnaturenotes.blogspot.com/
> >> > Finca Alacranes., Utley,Texas
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Cameron Carver <c.o.carver@xxxxxxxxx
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> This is not entirely meant for the general audience, but since I know
> >> >> Anthony and he thought it a good idea to share his sob story with us
> >> all I
> >> >> thought I would offer solutions to his problems.
> >> >>
> >> >> Anthony, you are prone to report impressive numbers and species in
> >> >> locations on a first visit to a new place. This raises suspicion
> >> especially
> >> >> when others visit the location and the same birds are not there. So,
> >> your
> >> >> reports go largely unsubstantiated. A camera would be a wise
> investment.
> >> >>
> >> >> Let's talk about investments. If people question your sightings on a
> >> >> regular basis and all you can provide are written details, I think it
> >> might
> >> >> be time to get a camera - especially if you are tired of other's
> >> >> complaints. If you want a $250-$500 camera but cannot afford it,
> perhaps
> >> >> consider less county listing games. A full jaunt around a county or
> two
> >> >> could cost about $50 in gas and maintenance. If you do that twice a
> >> month,
> >> >> think of the money you will save if you cut back. Of course that is
> >> >> sacrificing something you enjoy. But if your goal is to document bird
> >> >> species in those counties, you are doing no one any service by not
> >> having a
> >> >> way to document unusual/rare birds. I won't force you to buy a camera
> >> >> though.
> >> >>
> >> >> As for Audubon and TOS. You say that if you were not a regional
> >> >> representative then TOS would not have one. That is not true. I know
> of
> >> >> several that would step in and not spend a dying Audubon society's
> >> money.
> >> >> And the reason it is dying has absolutely nothing to do with you...
> >> >>
> >> >> Birders come in all shapes and sizes and ages and classes. Each
> person
> >> >> enjoys birds differently. But if you expect to report rare birds you
> >> better
> >> >> have something better than your word. Experience helps, but even the
> >> best
> >> >> get it wrong. I blew an ID the other day. Eric Carpenter corrected me
> >> and I
> >> >> learned from it. Had that been in the field instead of from a photo
> no
> >> one
> >> >> would have caught it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cameron
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 19:18, Anthony Hewetson <terrverts@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Greetings All:
> >> >>> A lot of birders don't seem to realize it but there is a class
> element
> >> >> in all of this talk of photo-documentation as well.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There is a chance that this might be considered off topic and
> moderated
> >> >> but I would like all texbirds, particularly those who are board
> members
> >> of
> >> >> TOS, to read this.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There are proficient, even more than proficient, birders out there
> who
> >> >> can barely afford relevance in this activity. If relevance comes to
> >> >> include photo-documentation of every bird of interest, they are out!
> >> That
> >> >> is why this is relevant to texbirds. If we condescend to beginners
> or
> >> the
> >> >> experienced but impoverished we are not reaching out.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Guess what Mr. Carver; a lot of people can't afford cameras of
> >> >> sufficient quality to document birds at any distance. The comment
> that
> >> >> everybody has a smartphone is a) boloney and b) disingenuous. If
> 60% of
> >> >> people have smartphones and the vast majority of those are young
> folk -
> >> >> then well over 50% of birders are not so equipped. And, ss somebody
> >> already
> >> >> pointed out, smartphone or not, you need a camera, and a good one, to
> >> >> document birds at any distance. My $500 camera (which put me in
> debt)
> >> did
> >> >> not convince anybody that the swan in Lubbock might be a Trumpeter
> but
> >> >> somebody's multi-thousand dollar camera got their attention.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I am, possibly, a reasonably proficient birder and I can't afford a
> >> >> better camera. Mine is adequate for documenting butterflies and I
> have
> >> now
> >> >> documented over 1500 records for BAMONA - it is not unwillingness;
> it is
> >> >> relative poverty! I have to prioritize certain things in my life
> >> >> (mortgage, a thoroughly disgusting amount of medical expenses due to
> an
> >> >> as-yet-undiagnosed illness that will undoubtedly keep my bank balance
> >> near
> >> >> zero until they run out of tests or I die, and various financial
> >> >> obligations that I have acquired through previous personal
> connections
> >> >> which I will not shirk because my mamma taught me better than that).
> >> Four
> >> >> months ago, my bank balance at the end of the month was $43.57 - and
> I
> >> have
> >> >> no family who will bail me out. I'm one bad event from taking a
> second
> >> job
> >> >> - at which point my contribution to Texas birding will be over.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If I was not subsidized by my local Audubon chapter, I would not be
> >> able
> >> >> to attend (as a Regional Director) TOS meetings and we would have
> >> another
> >> >> region in Texas without a regional director. I feel like a complete
> >> rube
> >> >> when I stay in those hotels. The hotels I usually stay in usually
> cost
> >> >> less than cabins at State Parks and provide a wealth of wildlife
> viewing
> >> >> opportunities:)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Many, many times I have been made to feel as though I should not be
> >> >> participating in this activity and that, in absence of a good camera
> -
> >> >> better binoculars - a serious spotting scope - a pda with serious
> apps,
> >> my
> >> >> participation does not merit consideration. There is no ill
> intention
> >> on
> >> >> anybody's part but, if you look at the statistics, birders tend to be
> >> well
> >> >> off and it is very easy for somebody like me, standing next to a
> person
> >> >> burdened down with thousands of dollars worth of optics and
> benefited by
> >> >> years' worth of world travel, to be made to feel like a complete Joe
> >> Dirt
> >> >> by a casual comment dropped about my 'crappy' optics.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Heck, I was once told that, if I wanted to teach Master Naturalist
> >> >> classes, I should acquire Master Naturalist 'certification'. I guess
> >> the
> >> >> $60,000 I spent on a Master's Degree in Zoology doesn't count to the
> >> mostly
> >> >> well-entitled folk who can drop a few thousand for 'certification'.
> You
> >> >> can bet I provided a little bit of wisdom to that particular person
> and,
> >> >> yes, I provided that wisdom Joe Pesci style.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Well - check this before you wreck this: I am a relatively
> impoverished
> >> >> birdwatcher and I'm proud of the skills I've managed to attain
> despite
> >> not
> >> >> having the financial wherewithal and/or familial assistance that
> would
> >> >> allow me to have better quality tools. I do my best to contribute
> >> >> regionally and at the state level and, given my low class status, I
> >> feel I
> >> >> do a pretty good job.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If somebody wants to buy me a nice camera, well bring it! I'm not
> so
> >> >> proud that I'll turn down a free camera - if that's what it takes to
> >> count!
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Until then, bear in mind that the poorly-equipped birder next to you
> >> >> already feels inadequate enough and take some time to evaluate their
> >> skills
> >> >> before you judge them on the basis of the 'rig' that they are
> sporting.
> >> >> They probably did not choose to get by with $300 pair of binoculars,
> a
> >> >> hand-me-down scope and tripod, or a $500 camera.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Anthony 'Fat Tony' Hewetson; Lubbock
> >> >>>
> >> >>> P.S. No offense to the guys who very generously provided me with
> the
> >> >> elements I needed to have a working spotting scope and tripod. I
> love
> >> all
> >> >> three of you guys and really appreciate the upgrade from my previous
> >> >> Bushmaster on a stick lifestyle:) It has been absolutely fantastic
> on
> >> >> field trips that I have led to be able to set that bad boy up and
> put my
> >> >> participants on birds.
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