[TCUG] Re: Conflicts between cyclists/accesses and pedestrian facilities
- From: "Pearson, John" <John.Pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:20:51 +0100
This is a problem which we have faced at a number of sites in Cumbria. My
view is that it shouldn't be done, on the basis that whilst a green signal
is given to pedestrians, there should be no possibility of a vehicle (motor
or cycle) passing through a crossing without having committed an offence eg
crossed a stopline at red or cycled on a footway(!). In general terms it
isn't fair or safe to effectively tell people it is 'safe to cross' when it
isn't. Legally it has to be a clear breach of Regulation 37 paragraph
(2)(d) of TSRGD.
At one site the proposed all red pedestrian stage was not implemented after
consideration of these issues, but dropped kerbs with buff tactile paving
and pedestrian refuges were provided. Fortunately the pedestrian crossing
demand was not that great at this site.
At another site, following much heated debate with the local community, a
compulsory left turn TRO was implemented on a pub car park exit which joins
the highway within the junction (it wasn't feasible to signalise this exit),
and controlled crossings were provided on two legs of the junction only. No
crossing facility of any kind is provided on the third leg which left
turners from the pub travel into.
At a third site, a new all red ped stage was requested (commanded) by
Committee at an existing site with private driveways joining the highway
within the junction. As potential designers we identified this as a serious
problem and a Safety Audit has done the same. The Client is still
considering the Safety Audit findings.
The view I am often faced with from those who want the crossing is 'well,
that isn't likely to happen very often, a pedestrian is more likely to get
run down trying to cross the junction with no crossing facilities', and I
can see the logic in this argument. But I can't help wondering what would
be said if a child was knocked down during the all red ped stage by someone
driving out of their drive while all the other traffic was stopped.
I would be very interested to know what others' views are on this,
particularly with regard to Regulation 37.
Regards
John Pearson
CAPITA Infrastructure Consultancy
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Saffer [mailto:Howard.Saffer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 24 September 2002 15:16
To: 'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [TCUG] Conflicts between cyclists/accesses and pedestrian
facilities
We are looking at a couple of schemes (feasibility/design) where it is
required to install signalised pedestrian facilities (with
audibles/tactiles) - probably on an all -round pedestrian stage. However
there are potential conflicts with uncontrolled vehicles (from driveways to
houses) and/or cyclists (uncontrolled entry into junction) - and we are
pondering over whether to allow this. We think it is likely that cyclists,
and drivers from properties, are most likely to emerge and cross the
pedestrian facilities when they are green (i.e. when all other traffic is
stopped). It this fair and safe for pedestrians? However separately
signalling driveways and/or a cycle entry could be confusing for pedestrians
- as this would be similar to an all-red stage, but without the ped.
crossing signals operating.
What do other authorities do in this situation (on the design of new
schemes)?
Regards
Howard Saffer
Sheffield City Council
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