That's what I thought he meant too, Chris. But here is MAKH talking about
Nigel's transition from Phase I (bistratal) language into Phase II
(tristratal):
"There is, with Nigel, a discontinuity in the expression, as well as, of
course, the discontinuity that arises from the introduction of a third
level of coding into the system. But there is no discontinuity in the
content. The social functions that have determined the
protolanguage--satisfying immediate needs, controlling people's behavior,
being 'together', expressing the uniqueness of the self, exploring the
world of the non-self and creating a world in the imgiation--all these
evolve gradually and naturally into the social contexts and situation types
that we characterize as semiotic structures; and the semantic system, the
meaning potential that derives from these functions, evolve likewise. The
progressive approximation of the child's meanings to those of the adult
through interaction with and reinforcement by older speakers, begins before
these meanings are (necessarily) realized through the words and structures
of the adult language, and continues without interruption. Without thesi
continuity,the semantic system could not function effectively in the
transmission of the social system from the adult to the child."
("A sociosemiotic perspective on language development", in Collected Works
of MAKH Vol. 4, p. 109)
I think that Halliday was not exactly a Marxist, at least not in the sense
that I understand (and believe in) Marxism. In his essay on "The Influence
of Marxism" (in Halliday in the 21st Century), he is almost apologetic
about it, and considers the influence quite narrowly circumscribed. MAKH
speaks of the early influence of the CPGB linguistic circle and their
shared interest in the languages of the colonized peoples, which is
something he shared with Firth, who was anything but a Marxist. Although
MAKH rejects "post-Marxism" as a label, he is not so dismissive of
"neo-Marxism". Philosophically, his position that matter and meaning are
not (yet) reducible to a single substance is anti-monist--so he's not even
a convinced Spinozian (Spinozism is really an entry condition for Marxism
and even for Hegelianism).
I think his attempt (if it is his attempt rather than Christian's attempt)
to use logic rather than historical materialism here doesn't work for me.
The differentiation of the content plane isn't a logical operation--it's a
historical one, and, seen as something that happens first between people
and then is neurologically encoded within them, ti is a process that is
just as material as the (corresponding) differentiation of the expression
plane into phonetics and phonology and subsequently into phonetics and
graphology. These weren't logical operations: logic was an afterthought. As
Halliday says (and as Engels said), logic is just history with the messy
bits left out.
dk
2022년 6월 6일 (월) 오전 11:21, Dr ChRIS CLÉiRIGh <c.cleirigh@xxxxxxxxx>님이 작성:
Hi David,
What I take them to mean is that lexicogrammatical form and its function
originate as one. As they say, if it weren't for grammatical metaphor,
semantics and lexicogrammar could probably be modelled as function and
form. The relation of function to form is one of symbolic identity: they
are two perspectives on the same phenomenon, like the form and function
of a chair.
On Halliday's model, a child's content plane before the move into language
is *very* different from the semantic stratum of language.
Yes, my 'Marx and Engels' lecturer long ago pointed out that Marx's
original quotation about religion being the opium of the people was also
meant to include its beneficial aspect.
ChEeRS,
ChRIS
On Mon, 6 Jun 2022 at 11:18, 데이브드켈로그_교수_영어교육과 <dkellogg60@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Chris--
I don't really understand what they (MAKH and CMIMM) mean when they say
that the two ORIGINATE as one, because there is a LOGICAL relationship
between the two. Logically, there has to be two things for there to be any
relationship "between" two processes.
On the other hand, if you take a historical materialist view, the two
strata do originate as one stratum, because the child does have something
very like a semantics before the lexicogrammatical layer comes into being.
Isn't it more correct to say that the two strata originate as one because
there is a historical (ontogenetic) relationship between the two (there may
also be a sociogenetic and even a phylogenetic relationship, but that's
beyond my expertise).
(Marxism may be the opium of intellectuals, but opium has very important
medical uses, you know....)
dk
2022년 6월 6일 (월) 오전 8:22, Dr ChRIS CLÉiRIGh <c.cleirigh@xxxxxxxxx>님이 작성:
Dear Colleagues,
The following quotes (focused on the ideational metafunction) might be
useful for anyone who is unclear on Halliday's theoretical motivation for
stratifying the content plane into semantics and grammar.
Halliday & Matthiessen (1999: 26, 237):
Thus when we move from the lexicogrammar into the semantics, as we are
doing here, we are not simply relabelling everything in a new
terminological guise. We shall stress the fundamental relationship between
(say) clause complex in the grammar and sequence in the semantics,
precisely because the two originate as one: a theory of logical
relationships between processes. But, as we have shown, what makes such a
theory (i.e. an ideation base as the construal of experience) possible is
that it is a stratal construction that can also be deconstructed, every
such occasion being a gateway to the creation of further meanings which
reconstrue in new and divergent ways. Thus a sequence is not 'the same
thing as' a clause complex; if it was, language would not be a dynamic open
system of the kind that it is. …
Of course, what we are recognising here as two distinct constructions,
the semantic and the grammatical, never had or could have had any existence
the one prior to the other; they are our analytic representation of the
overall semioticising of experience — how experience is construed into
meaning. If the congruent pattern had been the only form of construal, we
would probably not have needed to think of semantics and grammar as two
separate strata: they would be merely two facets of the content plane,
interpreted on the one hand as function and on the other as form.
--
dr chris cléirigh
*Marxism is the opium of the intellectuals.*
====================================
My Linguistics Sites
Thoughts That Cross My Mind
<http://thoughts-that-cross-my-mind.blogspot.com.au/>
Deploying Functional Grammar
<https://deployingfunctionalgrammar.blogspot.com/>
Factoring Out Structure <https://yaegandoran.blogspot.com/>
Martin's Discourse Semantics, Register & Genre
<http://discourse-semantics.blogspot.com.au/>
Working With Discourse: Meaning Beyond The Clause
<http://workingwithdiscourse.blogspot.com.au/>
The Cardiff Grammar <http://cardiff-grammar.blogspot.com.au/>
The Thought Occurs <http://thethoughtoccurs.blogspot.com.au/>…
Thoughts That Didn't Occur <http://master-bateman.blogspot.com.au/>…
Informing Thoughts <http://informingthoughts.blogspot.com.au/>
Systemic Functional Linguistics <http://systemictheory.blogspot.com/>
Sysfling <http://sysfling.blogspot.com.au/>
Sys-Func <http://sys-func.blogspot.com.au/>
Attitude In Systemic Functional Linguistics
<http://attitude-in-sfl.blogspot.com.au/>
Martin's Model Of Paralanguage <https://sflparalanguage.blogspot.com/>
Lexis As Most Local Context
<https://lexisasmostlocalcontext.blogspot.com/>
Making Sense Of Meaning <https://meta-sfl-theory.blogspot.com/>
====================================
--
David Kellogg
Sangmyung University
,
New article in *Mind, Culture, and Activity:*
Vygotsky’s pedology of the adolescent: the discovery of sex and the
invention of love
<http://url310.tandfonline.com/ls/click?upn=odl8Fji2pFaByYDqV3bjGMQo8st9of2228V6AcSFNq3t86qU90pAx-2BEad4OTI0D6Bi1fwTdsuN-2BfXNLD3YVMjcnc2doHNV16BVJ9Ul2IJbI-3DZKRx_X7XaRk1WbLfx0WH87lwk8dq9sJwzGg6rYuMbUaEYJVSc-2Brn9o4kZxBH7VyDFXQG28M-2BKa-2BHSj0aIwPgf21oq3zJLnm5n8yxjT7G2tJZV-2FuvhT5zGPeQh8ZFgFu6C2C0RY1-2FqvNcy-2Fl-2FdYki1BcwYXxEkbsINyOKrr-2FQ8Is1Y2GuYPFeQb1EYYitPf73h3UO9KBgbhFPYWJPeMOaDnkxGm5prVPYJCBKQdzOFe3qjFRBHSch02OJYDsLv8sX7GqEFKFanNKEiJ4WK6jVz-2FcuyfF3cekKsEZsCFZDExBpLlq8-3D>
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New article with Irina Leopoldoff-Martin and Bernard Schneuwly.: "Developing
Concepts of Development in Vygotsky’s pédologie: Introduction to the
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50 free online copies available at:
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New book of translations from L.S. Vygotsky's pedological work with
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Downloadable pdfs at:
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--
dr chris cléirigh
*Marxism is the opium of the intellectuals.*
— Edmund Burke
====================================
My Linguistics Sites
Deploying Functional Grammar
<https://deployingfunctionalgrammar.blogspot.com/>
Martin's Model Of Paralanguage <https://sflparalanguage.blogspot.com/>
Informing Thoughts <http://informingthoughts.blogspot.com.au/>
Making Sense Of Meaning <https://meta-sfl-theory.blogspot.com/>
Systemic Functional Linguistics <http://systemictheory.blogspot.com/>
Sys-Func <http://sys-func.blogspot.com.au/>
Sysfling <http://sysfling.blogspot.com.au/>
The Thought Occurs <http://thethoughtoccurs.blogspot.com.au/>…
Thoughts That Cross My Mind
<http://thoughts-that-cross-my-mind.blogspot.com.au/>
Martin's Discourse Semantics, Register & Genre
<http://discourse-semantics.blogspot.com.au/>
Thoughts That Didn't Occur <http://master-bateman.blogspot.com.au/>…
Working With Discourse: Meaning Beyond The Clause
<http://workingwithdiscourse.blogspot.com.au/>
The Cardiff Grammar <http://cardiff-grammar.blogspot.com.au/>
Lexis As Most Local Context
<https://lexisasmostlocalcontext.blogspot.com/>
Factoring Out Structure <https://yaegandoran.blogspot.com/>
Attitude In Systemic Functional Linguistics
<http://attitude-in-sfl.blogspot.com.au/>
====================================
