Hi Neal,
Since Studio Recorder is still in beta it is understandable that it is
constantly changing.
However it will eventually be finished so Rob can start working on a new
project and at that time maybe an audio tutorial or a revised hot key list
or manual could be worked on.
Sincerely,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Ewers" <neal.ewers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <studiorecorder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: [studiorecorder] Re: Studio Recorder documentation
Well, there has already been a president set for an audio guide to a product. Both JAWS and Window-Eyes have them. However, there is one big difference. SR comes out with an update almost weekly. Anything you recorded would soon be out of date. However, this is not to say that a recorded instruction tutorial with someone actually doing they things they are talking about wouldn't be nice. It most certainly would work nicely, especially for people who are just getting into recording. So, if any one of us decided to do a number of podcasts on this, it's very hard to know where to start. Rob has already done a couple of them. No, his focus was not to do a thorough report on what SR can do. It was more to give us information on new features. And the other problem here is that it is not just studio recorder that people would need help on. Some would like to know about sampling rate, dither, bit rate, normalization, etc. So, whoever took on such a task would have a lot to bite off.
So, can you tell I am rambling with no where to go? Yes, I certainly am, because I don't have the answer.
I suspect if Rob and company had the time to do this, it would have already been done. Any number of us could cover certain parts and demonstrate things as we go, but it would be a far cry from a complete tutorial.
There is the list of keystrokes that a number of us added to a couple months ago. I don't remember who started it, but he did us all a great service. I'm just thinking out loud here, but perhaps a brief, written description and the context in which some of these would be used might be even more helpful. Perhaps this could be something a number of people worked on and then combined their efforts in the end.
Any other ideas?
Neal
-----Original Message----- From: studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 7:47 PM To: studiorecorder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [studiorecorder] Re: Studio Recorder documentation
I agree that APH has done great work for the blind. And the fact the public who is blind have found their way to APH for products like Studio Recorder and Bookport means that APH has gone beyond its already fine work making materials accessible and available for people in school and adult rehab programs.
However, in the world of software development the idea gained credence that software need not have hard copy documentation. APH didn't invent the practice of lists of changes for updates on CD's or in websites. I think it was a self serving notion by many of the big software developers. No doubt it was a pain to update documentation, especially of the Braille variety. And software changes very fast.
I would like to understand and use studio recorder better. I have brailled the manual a couple of times. And you know, when I read through it, I completely understand much that I'm reading. Some things I haven't a clue about. It is a new way of recording, a new approach to editing, and because it's so good, we have the luxury to focus on how to make really good edits, really quiet recordings, really great mixes.
I'm going to need a friend to make recordings with or I'm going to have to be taken through a step by step learning curriculum or, sorry guys, I'm going to have to read a logical presentation of how to make studio recorder work. I would rather not have to wade through mouse stuff, but if it must be included, then I would like it if it could be separated out so I don't waste time with it.
In any case, I know APH could do up a fine braille manual or teaching curriculum for studio recorder, if anybody can. Rob's memorable pod cast on the Edirol R 1 convinced me that there is a way to greater participation. I know about myself that reading stuff really helps me.
Mike -----Original Message----- From: studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Neal Ewers Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:42 PM To: studiorecorder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [studiorecorder] Re: Studio Recorder documentation
Phil, I am certainly not apposed to a two manual presentation if SR wants to go that way. My previous message was written to state that I thought APH was being unnecessarily picked on for ignoring the "Blind," which I do not think they have done.
Neal
-----Original Message----- From: studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:48 PM To: studiorecorder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [studiorecorder] Studio Recorder documentation
Hi Rob, I agree with David. When you say "We don't favor any group specifically; we only document the product and its features." I think you should favor the blind. In most of the tutorials written for the blind to use software designed for the sighted like Microsoft Word, they leave out most of the mouse movement techniques and rely on the keyboard
equivalents. To include both would make a complicated manual even more so. I think you should try to create a separate manual for Studio Recorder when used by the blind which specifically gives those features and functions the blind could use . If someone wanted to know the sighted equivalents, they could just go back to your combined manual. Sincerely, Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Tanner" <David.Tanner@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <studiorecorder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: [studiorecorder] Re: New Exciting Beta Version
But, compairing the SoundForge manual and way they work isn't fair. After all the last time I checked American Printing House for the Blind was suppose to be developing products for use by the blind and accessible to the blind.
I don't have a problem with deleting a mark one place and inserting one somewhere else, but I am not ready to tell a company whose main mission is or should be making products that are accessible to blind people that it is alright to ignore keyboard equivelents and go for the mouse because that is what sighted people use. That attitude is not acceptible.
Sorry, I don't go for giving in to mouse users that easy when it comes
to software designed by an agency that calls themselves American Printing House for the Blind.
And now I'll step down off the soap box.
David Tanner Rehabilitation Program Specialist 3 Assistive Technology Specialist Assistive Technology Department MN State Services f/t Blind Office- 651-642-0795 Cell- 651-270-2233 Skype name: dtat100
neal.ewers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 6/21/2006 8:47 AM >>>And one further point. People who are blind sometimes forget that there are other people in the world who see and who use the mouse. I happen to know a couple with low vision who use SR. True, they may lose enough of their vision at some point to need to use more of the keyboard commands, and they already use many of them. But, using the mouse for them, not to mention people who have normal vision, is a very normal thing to do. So, one would definitely point out ways to use SR with the mouse. If you really want to read a manual that is mouse crazy, try the Sound Forge manual. Yes, they have a lot of short cut keys, but for the most part, the manual is written for sighted users. So, in my opinion, SR has gone out of its way to make the manual easy to use by all people. I think that is a definite plus and not a minus.
Neal
-----Original Message----- From: studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:studiorecorder-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ROB MEREDITH Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:10 AM To: studiorecorder@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [studiorecorder] Re: New Exciting Beta Version
Daveed:
Our manual is what it is, a manual for the product. We don't favor any group specifically; we only document the product and its features. If anything, we feel like we offer much more accessibility than any other wave editor, and it is all documented.
As for moving marks with the keyboard, this is not possible directly. The easiest thing to do is simply clear the mark, move to the place where you want it, and set a new one. This may sound like we are skirting the issue, but if you think about, designing an interface to move marks with the keyboard would be more complacated than just clearing the mark and creating one somewhere else. Can you imagine being in "mark move mode"? Sounds dreadful!
Rob Meredith
I still wish to plead, Rob, that you provide some explicit and clearerdaveedm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 06/20/06 10:47PM >>>
docs for keyboard-related stuff, as opposed to mouse girations. For instance, moving marks and selection are discussed
with the mouse, and one must dig to find keyboard equivalents. I still hyaven 't found the one for moving marks. Am I, what the British describe as daft or something?
I think you might also address how to make Studio Recorder as accessible as possible using screen readers. I realize the product
was first and foremost meant for sighted monitors and narrators, but since we blind folks have discovered a real hit with this product, I feel the docs could be significantly more blind-friendly. Now remember, I'm a big SR booster, so don't take me wrong here--but yours docs are very sight-oriented.
Take care.
--Daveed--At 12:30 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote:
quick,We try! We'll keep trying!
>>> curtis@xxxxxxxxxx 06/20/06 03:26PM >>> Holy Toledo! Rob, what an exciting product! I mean it really isinnovative, very stable compared to all others, and in all ways,easyto use, speech friendly (accessible with screen readers withgraphicsRules!only for those who want them), and surprisingly the interface is intuitively elligant.
Curtis Delzer
At 11:43 AM 6/20/2006, you wrote: >Yet another new feature graces Studio Recorder in this new beta release. >Well, actually two new features, but one big one. Resampling>(I'll let you read the What's New file for the other feature.) > >Rob Meredith
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date:6/20/2006
-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 6/20/2006
