Carlos Moll asked: > So, the question would be what would be the preferred format for > supporting the more advanced, coupling based package models? We've gotten good results with lumped coupled SPICE models for our = latest Alpha packages, as we reported at EPEP'01. In theory, = transmission line models would be better, but they would have to be = fully coupled, lossy, non-uniform transmission line models, and I'm not = aware of any simulators that have such models included. --=20 Michael Tsuk Compaq AlphaServer Platform Group (508) 467-4621 -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Moll [mailto:cmoll@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:11 AM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] package models There is noticeable changes in today's requirements for package modeling = =3D and the distribution formats of such models. To keep it simply, =3D lumped, narrow bandwidth, uncoupled package models are no longer =3D supporting the level of accuracy needed for dealing with high speed =3D design issues. Additionally, an end goal would be to support concurrent = =3D Chip-Package-PCB design. There are various model types available (just looking for format info at = =3D this point, which would be irrelevant on the solvers used and whether = =3D flipchip or wirebond technology) Some examples; Lumped, uncoupled Lumped, Coupled Distributed t-line=3D20 PEEC Based.... with a wide range of formats (ebd, dml, spice, s-param, etc..) which =3D could be used either in the time domain or frequency domain or = both....=3D20 So, the question would be what would be the preferred format for =3D supporting the more advanced, coupling based package models? Thank you for the input. Carlos Moll Cadence Design Systems, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages=20 Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu