[SI-LIST] Re: one question for HSPIC and IBIS_AMI
- From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 08:22:39 -0700
Ambrish,
I agree that this could be done as you describe, but this is
not covered by the flow described in the AMI specification
and I am not sure how many tools would actually support this.
Thanks,
Arpad
==============================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Ambrish Varma [mailto:ambrishv@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:04 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: one question for HSPIC and IBIS_AMI
Hi Arpad,
To your second point, my understanding is that you do not have to have
AMI models for both Tx and Rx to perform an AMI simulation. You should
be able to perform the AMI simulation with AMI models present for only
Tx, only Rx or both Tx and Rx. If there is an AMI model at one end only,
the other end might very well be SPICE or regular IBIS. The assumption
for such simulations is that the SPICE and/or regular IBIS models are
LTI allowing for their effects to be captured in the Impulse Response.
Once that is done, we can perform AMI simulation with the available AMI
model. So in effect, we can perform mixed-mode simulations with SPICE on
one end and IBIS-AMI model on the other end (with the given assumption).
You would be right if there is non-linear circuitry in the SPICE model
that cannot be captured in the Impulse Response and a full time domain
AMI simulation is the only solution.
So the correct answer to Jimmy would be - it depends. It depends on what
kind of SPICE model does he have access to.
Thanks,
Ambrish.
Ambrish Varma | Member of Consulting Staff
P: 978.262.6431 www.cadence.com
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 1:04 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: one question for HSPIC and IBIS_AMI
Jimmy,
First, like Steve Kaufer already stated, you need to get
the latest version of HyperLynx which does have IBIS-AMI
support.
Second, IBIS-AMI simulations can't be done in "mixed mode".
You have to have AMI models for both Tx and Rx to be able
to use algorithmic (AMI) models. You can't have a SPICE
or regular IBIS model on one end and an algorithmic model
on the other end. These two types of models do not mix
(like water and oil).
The reason is because regular SPICE and IBIS models are
simulated by an iterative circuit solver simulator which
solves the voltages and currents in the circuit using
Ohm's law, Kirchhoff's law etc... for each node voltage
and branch current. AMI models, on the other hand start
with an impulse response of the channel and process that
with signal processing algorithms. This technique
only processes the waveform seen at the receiver
(usually).
I hope this gives you a better understanding of the nature
of these two types of models and simulations.
Arpad
=============================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jimmy Lee
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:05 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] one question for HSPIC and IBIS_AMI
Hi SI expert
Something confused me several days
I need to perform serdes channel simulations with mixed models(HSPICE
and IBIS-AMI). Is it possible? EDA tools I have are HSPICE 2010.03-sp1,
SIGXP 16.2, Hyperlynx 8.0. I found neither sigxp nor hyperlynx on there
version support IBIS-AMI. HSPICE is said to support IBIS-AMI in
Statistical Eye Analysis mode with .stateye command. Is there a tutorial
about how to do a serdes channel simulation with mixed hspice and
ibis-ami models in HSPICE? BTW, could I just do a transient simulation
with the preemphasis or equaliztion options compiled in .ami or .dll
file?
Thanks
Jimmy
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