[SI-LIST] Re: What are power integrity tools available out there? Anything inexpensive that works?
- From: "Istvan Nagy" <buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ci249534@xxxxxxxxx>, "Aleksandr Oysgelt" <aleks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:07:03 -0000
hi
can we get the software too, or just the manual?
i saw that it is for the book.
i dont really want to buy your book, since i am not doing chip design (i think
the book is about that), but i do board-level design.
i would be interested in trying it.
Istvan Nagy
cct.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cosmin Iorga
To: Aleksandr Oysgelt ; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Istvan Nagy
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: What are power integrity tools available out
there? Anything inexpensive that works?
Hi Aleks,
You may take a look also at ChipQuake from
http://www.noisecoupling.com. It does not have extraction capabilities, but it
covers the pre-layout decoupling capacitors selection and placement on the PCB,
package, and chip, and it also computes the power distribution impedance curve
and resonance peaks. There is a downloadable user guide on that web site that
may give you more insight into this tool.
Best Regards,
Cosmin
NoiseCoupling.com
--- On Sun, 2/8/09, Istvan Nagy <buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Istvan Nagy <buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: What are power integrity tools available out
there? Anything inexpensive that works?
To: "Aleksandr Oysgelt" <aleks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 2:50 AM
hisome free tools available:- FEMM. to do post-layout AC or DC voltage drop and
current distribution analysis on power planes (opensource, fully free, with
windows version): http://femm.foster-miller.net/wiki/HomePage- Sphynx.
frequency domain (s-parameter) analisys of
power planes, with capacitors. creating macromodel, checking resonant
peaks.you can download a demo with max 20000 nodes limitation and no CAD
import, or buy the full version.http://www.powerintegrity.net/sphinx- QUCS:
circuit simulator with s-parameter file import for AC analysis. I use this with
models exported from sphynx, for a full power distribution system freq.domain
AC analysys (macromodelling). (opensource, fully free, with windows
version)http://qucs.sourceforge.net/example system anaysis:
http://www.buenos.extra.hu/download/PowerIntegrityDesign_prj.rarTo do a
complete system analisys with siwave, you need to buy the Nexxim circuit
simulator too, also from Ansoft. dcdc converter, powerplane, package, chip,
package-caps... simulation together"Have non-SI expert be able to run the
tools" -i am not shure if thismakes any sense.regards,Istvan NagyConcurrent
Technologies, UK.----- Original Message ----- From: "Aleksandr Oysgelt"
<aleks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>Sent: Saturday, February
07, 2009 7:45 PMSubject: [SI-LIST] Re: What are power integrity tools available
out there? Anything inexpensive that works?>I am starting to look at power
integrity tools and would like to know what> is available and whether there are
any "slimmed down" versionsthat can do> what I need at lower price than
full-blown Sigrity-like packages.> Currently we use "spreadsheet" approach
where we analyticallycompute > plane> impedance based on self+mounting
impedances of various types of caps plus> plane impedance. This is fairly
accurate to 100MHz or so. However, it > does> not help us at all in figuring
out where the plane resonances are and > where> we should place caps to
help with them.>> So, here is my wishlist. I don't require all to be
addressed by same > tool.> Depending on price - I'd be happy to get just some
of the bulletpoints > and> not all.>> - Figure out plane impedance curve> -
Figure out plane resonance - where should we place caps> - Figure out
resistive losses plus current distribution> - Be able to figure out tradeoffs
between using higher capacitance> plane/ground structure vs using large
number of caps vs using different> types of caps.> - Do pre and post layout
simulation> - Have non-SI expert be able to run the tools>> So far Sigrity
and HyperLynx PI (just announced) seem to do the job but at> quite substantial
cost. I keep asking myself a question - what problem do> they solve vs cost
(in license fees and training/simulation time) vs using>
spreadsheet/simple simulation. So far I don't have a clear answer -thus > I>
am asking you for other ideas on approaching the power integrity problem.>>
Thank you> Aleks>>>
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