[SI-LIST] Re: HyperLynx vs Hspice
- From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:19:22 -0700
Just a minor correction. It is not IBIS 4.0 that will provide
the capabilities for the *-AMS language extensions, it will be
IBIS 4.1.
Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
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-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Douglas Burns
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 8:20 PM
To: bill_hargin@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: naveenr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: HyperLynx vs Hspice
All,
Actually since HSPICE supports both transistor level models and IBIS
models it is capable of providing the speed needed to analyze full =
boards.
I agree that a full board analysis with transistor level models is out =
of
the question due to compute time (Unless you have lots of HSPICE
licenses), but we routinely do this with large multi-board systems
(Backplanes, switch fabrics, etc)using HSPICE's IBIS capability.
As far as using IBIS for 3+ GHZ signals, I'd say the IBIS 4.0 =
capabilities
will be required as a minimum, however most simulators due not support
these capabilities at this time. This really leaves HSPICE as the only
real option, at this time, for these nets.
Doug
Douglas J Burns
Chief Consultant
Signal Integrity Software, Inc.
6 Clock Tower Place
Maynard, MA 01754
978-461-0449 x14
www.sisoft.com
> Hi Naveen:
>
> Your questions (coincidentally) are being addressed in a Mentor =
Webinar
> early next week
> http://www.mentor.com/pcb/events/highspeed_webinar_reg.cfm. Kind of
> down to the wire, but I think you can still sign up, if you're
> interested.
>
> Specific to your questions ...
>
>> 1. Can I use just Hspice to perform all my high speed
>> simulations or is
>> HyperLynx a better tool for this application?
>
> At the board level, HSPICE is simply out of the question.
>
>> 2. Has anyone had experience with converting 3D spice models to IBIS?
>> What are the tradeoffs?
>
> There are a number of things that you can do in SPICE, like modeling
> pre-emphasis or equalization, for example, that don't work well in =
IBIS.
> IBIS 4.0 addresses this, enabling calls to external models. The
> implied need here is that IBIS needed a boost, particularly for =
modeling
> multi-gigabit circuits.
>
>> 3. HyperLynx has three levels of licenses - regular, EXT and
>> GHZ. Which
>> one should I be using?
>
> Among the options you listed, "HyperLynx GHz" was developed for the
> purpose you're describing. A bit more detail below.
>
>> I need to perform some high speed simulations (over 3GHz) for my
>> backplane and I currently have the Mentor HyperLynx tool. I have run
>> into a little problem. HyperLynx needs IBIS models for simulation
>> purposes, whereas most of the vendors provide only spice
>> models and not
>> IBIS. Although HyperLynx can convert Spice models to IBIS, it
>> does need
>> a Spice simulator to do that.
>
> HyperLynx GHz can work with either IBIS or HSPICE models. Provided =
that
> you have an HSPICE license, the tool just invokes the simulator that
> would be best for the circuit you're analyzing. Obviously, for =
example,
> you'd want an IBIS-optimized simulator for your non-3GHz signals =
(rather
> than HSPICE). And, conversely, you'd want to be using HSPICE to model
> the 3 GHz signals for which you have encrypted HSPICE models. So, to
> state it correctly, HyperLynx GHz doesn't actually "convert" SPICE
> models into IBIS models. It just grabs the best available simulator =
for
> the IC models it finds.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> Bill Hargin
> Mentor Graphics Corp.
> Systems Design Division
> High-Speed Tools
> 425-497-5079 - Direct
> 425-301-4425 - Mobile
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Naveen Reddy [mailto:naveenr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:38 AM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] HyperLynx vs Hspice
>>
>>
>> Hi Everybody:
>> I need to perform some high speed simulations (over 3GHz) for my
>> backplane and I currently have the Mentor HyperLynx tool. I have run
>> into a little problem. HyperLynx needs IBIS models for simulation
>> purposes, whereas most of the vendors provide only spice
>> models and not
>> IBIS. Although HyperLynx can convert Spice models to IBIS, it
>> does need
>> a Spice simulator to do that.
>>
>> I am a little confused here and am hoping I can have these questions
>> answered.
>>
>> 1. Can I use just Hspice to perform all my high speed
>> simulations or is
>> HyperLynx a better tool for this application?
>> 2. Has anyone had experience with converting 3D spice models to IBIS?
>> What are the tradeoffs?
>> 3. HyperLynx has three levels of licenses - regular, EXT and
>> GHZ. Which
>> one should I be using?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> -Naveen.
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