[SI-LIST] Re: HyperLynx vs Hspice
- From: "Douglas Burns" <dburns@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bill_hargin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:19:47 -0400 (EDT)
All,
Actually since HSPICE supports both transistor level models and IBIS
models it is capable of providing the speed needed to analyze full boards.
I agree that a full board analysis with transistor level models is out of
the question due to compute time (Unless you have lots of HSPICE
licenses), but we routinely do this with large multi-board systems
(Backplanes, switch fabrics, etc)using HSPICE's IBIS capability.
As far as using IBIS for 3+ GHZ signals, I'd say the IBIS 4.0 capabilities
will be required as a minimum, however most simulators due not support
these capabilities at this time. This really leaves HSPICE as the only
real option, at this time, for these nets.
Doug
Douglas J Burns
Chief Consultant
Signal Integrity Software, Inc.
6 Clock Tower Place
Maynard, MA 01754
978-461-0449 x14
www.sisoft.com
> Hi Naveen:
>
> Your questions (coincidentally) are being addressed in a Mentor Webinar
> early next week
> http://www.mentor.com/pcb/events/highspeed_webinar_reg.cfm. Kind of
> down to the wire, but I think you can still sign up, if you're
> interested.
>
> Specific to your questions ...
>
>> 1. Can I use just Hspice to perform all my high speed
>> simulations or is
>> HyperLynx a better tool for this application?
>
> At the board level, HSPICE is simply out of the question.
>
>> 2. Has anyone had experience with converting 3D spice models to IBIS?
>> What are the tradeoffs?
>
> There are a number of things that you can do in SPICE, like modeling
> pre-emphasis or equalization, for example, that don't work well in IBIS.
> IBIS 4.0 addresses this, enabling calls to external models. The
> implied need here is that IBIS needed a boost, particularly for modeling
> multi-gigabit circuits.
>
>> 3. HyperLynx has three levels of licenses - regular, EXT and
>> GHZ. Which
>> one should I be using?
>
> Among the options you listed, "HyperLynx GHz" was developed for the
> purpose you're describing. A bit more detail below.
>
>> I need to perform some high speed simulations (over 3GHz) for my
>> backplane and I currently have the Mentor HyperLynx tool. I have run
>> into a little problem. HyperLynx needs IBIS models for simulation
>> purposes, whereas most of the vendors provide only spice
>> models and not
>> IBIS. Although HyperLynx can convert Spice models to IBIS, it
>> does need
>> a Spice simulator to do that.
>
> HyperLynx GHz can work with either IBIS or HSPICE models. Provided that
> you have an HSPICE license, the tool just invokes the simulator that
> would be best for the circuit you're analyzing. Obviously, for example,
> you'd want an IBIS-optimized simulator for your non-3GHz signals (rather
> than HSPICE). And, conversely, you'd want to be using HSPICE to model
> the 3 GHz signals for which you have encrypted HSPICE models. So, to
> state it correctly, HyperLynx GHz doesn't actually "convert" SPICE
> models into IBIS models. It just grabs the best available simulator for
> the IC models it finds.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> Bill Hargin
> Mentor Graphics Corp.
> Systems Design Division
> High-Speed Tools
> 425-497-5079 - Direct
> 425-301-4425 - Mobile
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Naveen Reddy [mailto:naveenr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:38 AM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] HyperLynx vs Hspice
>>
>>
>> Hi Everybody:
>> I need to perform some high speed simulations (over 3GHz) for my
>> backplane and I currently have the Mentor HyperLynx tool. I have run
>> into a little problem. HyperLynx needs IBIS models for simulation
>> purposes, whereas most of the vendors provide only spice
>> models and not
>> IBIS. Although HyperLynx can convert Spice models to IBIS, it
>> does need
>> a Spice simulator to do that.
>>
>> I am a little confused here and am hoping I can have these questions
>> answered.
>>
>> 1. Can I use just Hspice to perform all my high speed
>> simulations or is
>> HyperLynx a better tool for this application?
>> 2. Has anyone had experience with converting 3D spice models to IBIS?
>> What are the tradeoffs?
>> 3. HyperLynx has three levels of licenses - regular, EXT and
>> GHZ. Which
>> one should I be using?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> -Naveen.
>>
>>
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