Thanks for the tips. Very helpful!
is it possible to directly extract spice model from layout? I think those
kind of tool, such as SPD2K, actually still extract sparam first then
convert it into circuit or macromodel?
As far as I know, for 2.5D extraction, 2000 ports is doable, though the
accuracy could be undermined, and could incur more passivity and causality
issues.
To date, in my opinion, sparameter is a good stuff and as SI engineers we
probably cannot live w/o it? - Any objections are highly welcome :-)
Tramp
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:29 PM Scott McMorrow <Scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
At Samtec we routinely extract entire DDR buses, multiple PCIe fabric,
IEEE and OIF channels, etc., using Ansys EM solvers, with fully coupled
s-parameters, on boards and packages that have up to 1000 ports, at high
resolution, and include full power modeling. They are then post processed
in both the time and frequency domain with the Matlab RF Toolkit and more
recently our own internal Toolkit.
Channel concatenation, Port swizzling, full power sum next and fext, ERL
and COM simulation are flawless and match other benchmark commercial
engines.
Oh, and we have high fidelity measurement correlation.
I'm just sayin'.
Scott
Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
------------------------------
*From:* si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of Don Pakbaz <don.pakbaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:59:04 AM
*To:* Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Cc:* farhilltramper@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL][SI-LIST] Re: AW: extract the channel sparam using
Matlab
If I may add my experience with S-parameter in case it may be of use.....
I try to avoid using S-parameter as much as possible because of the issues
Gert mentioning...
I generally do my extraction direct from layout. For PCB ".brd" file and
for package ".mcm" file.
Tool such as Cadence Sigrity extracts them (Spice type or broad band Spice
under tooling) and off I go. No issues.
When I deal with DDR I may have 172+ DQ signal that I want to look.
generating 172x2 = 344 ports S-Parameter will be
a nightmare if possible at all. extracting from direct layout is a
blessing....I suppose for SerDes couple differential S-parameter maybe
OK to generate but I try to avoid it.....My 0.02$ :-)
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 2:00 AM Havermann, Gert <
Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Tramp,is
Almost all tools have their own way of dealing with S-parameters. There
passivity or causality enforcement as well as intra and extrapolation ifsimulation
the frequency points not align with the points given by the S-parameters.
For a 1:1 comparison you should use identical frequency steps in
and all the S-Parameter files and switch off all enforcements. Then both|
tools should give the same S-parameter result.
If you also convert to time domain, then the differences can be
significant based on the windowing function used by the tool.
Mit freundlichen GrüÃen / Kind regards.
Gert Havermann
Signal Integrity Engineer
Dept.: Corporate Technology Services
HARTING Stiftung & Co. KG
MarienwerderstraÃe 3
D-32339 Espelkamp
Phone +49 (0)5772 47 857
Fax +49 (0)5772 47 90857
mailto:gert.havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx ;<gert.havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx>
http://www.HARTING.com
----------------------------------------
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www.HARTING.com
Persönlich haftende Gesellschafterin:
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Vorstand: Dipl.-Kfm. Philip F. W. Harting (Vorsitzender), Dipl.-Kffr.
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Im
Auftrag von Tramp
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2019 06:03
An: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [SI-LIST] extract the channel sparam using Matlab
Hi experts,
I found that using Matlab RF toolbox cascadesparams, the channel sparam
obtained is slightly different from that obtained with a commercial
simulator. Also, different freq points give different sparams. Anycomments
on extracting the channel sparam using Matlab?
--
Best Regards,
Tramp
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