At Samtec we routinely extract entire DDR buses, multiple PCIe fabric, IEEE and
OIF channels, etc., using Ansys EM solvers, with fully coupled s-parameters, on
boards and packages that have up to 1000 ports, at high resolution, and include
full power modeling. They are then post processed in both the time and
frequency domain with the Matlab RF Toolkit and more recently our own internal
Toolkit.
Channel concatenation, Port swizzling, full power sum next and fext, ERL and
COM simulation are flawless and match other benchmark commercial engines.
Oh, and we have high fidelity measurement correlation.
I'm just sayin'.
Scott
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
________________________________
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of
Don Pakbaz <don.pakbaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:59:04 AM
To: Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: farhilltramper@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EXTERNAL][SI-LIST] Re: AW: extract the channel sparam using Matlab
If I may add my experience with S-parameter in case it may be of use.....
I try to avoid using S-parameter as much as possible because of the issues
Gert mentioning...
I generally do my extraction direct from layout. For PCB ".brd" file and
for package ".mcm" file.
Tool such as Cadence Sigrity extracts them (Spice type or broad band Spice
under tooling) and off I go. No issues.
When I deal with DDR I may have 172+ DQ signal that I want to look.
generating 172x2 = 344 ports S-Parameter will be
a nightmare if possible at all. extracting from direct layout is a
blessing....I suppose for SerDes couple differential S-parameter maybe
OK to generate but I try to avoid it.....My 0.02$ :-)
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 2:00 AM Havermann, Gert <Gert.Havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Tramp,
Almost all tools have their own way of dealing with S-parameters. There is
passivity or causality enforcement as well as intra and extrapolation if
the frequency points not align with the points given by the S-parameters.
For a 1:1 comparison you should use identical frequency steps in simulation
and all the S-Parameter files and switch off all enforcements. Then both
tools should give the same S-parameter result.
If you also convert to time domain, then the differences can be
significant based on the windowing function used by the tool.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards.
Gert Havermann
Signal Integrity Engineer
Dept.: Corporate Technology Services
HARTING Stiftung & Co. KG
Marienwerderstraße 3
D-32339 Espelkamp
Phone +49 (0)5772 47 857
Fax +49 (0)5772 47 90857
mailto:gert.havermann@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.HARTING.com
----------------------------------------
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www.HARTING.com<http://www.HARTING.com>
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Im
Auftrag von Tramp
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2019 06:03
An: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [SI-LIST] extract the channel sparam using Matlab
Hi experts,
I found that using Matlab RF toolbox cascadesparams, the channel sparam
obtained is slightly different from that obtained with a commercial channel
simulator. Also, different freq points give different sparams. Any comments
on extracting the channel sparam using Matlab?
--
Best Regards,
Tramp
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