Barb, This a well written explanation of what needs to be done if the White Shepherd and white GSDs what to separate or not. The problem is though both the White Shepherd and white GSDs have the same problems with health and temperament as do the America GSDs as well as all GSDs regardless of the country they originate. Germany is trying to change this but America continues down the same path of the line breeding of the same GSDs regardless of color for which has been done for generations. You can not have a healthy dog or stable temperament unless the dogs in the background had it by line breeding and inbreeding off the same lines. If the dogs did not have issues yes it can be done but they did unfortunately. It is not a matter of what you try to do as conforming to the GSDCA Standard as it is not the important issue it will always be health and temperament of any dog. The general public is getting tired of needing to deal with all the issues of their GSD as reason for dogs being dumped at pounds, left on the side of the road, etc. The GSD is not on the most Top 10 dangerous Dog list and getting harder to obtain Home Insurance if you own a GSD for no reason. Whether you can show at a AKC Show should not have anything to do with the issue but changing the health and temperament of the dog can. REPEAT this can not be done by breeding off of generations of health and temperament issue dogs. This is not aimed at any one breeder, one that shows are not, regardless of their dogs color but is a general statement of what needs to be done to save the best breed that ever existed. Theresa On Tue, 5/27/14, barbara17236@xxxxxxx <barbara17236@xxxxxxx> wrote: Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: WHY will it pass .....? To: rautt75@xxxxxxxxx, scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tuesday, May 27, 2014, 8:39 AM Hi all: I have not been able to access my AOL account since last week, so I am trying to catch up on posts. Breed Separation - The GSDCA must agree to this first. AWSA needs a letter. Next, the GSDCA must agree to allow AKC to OPEN the CLOSED GSD stud books so that those white owners, who want to separate, can have their whites removed from the GSD stud books. FYI - I have been corresponding with AKC for a couple of weeks now on the separation issue. ONLY those owners, wanting breed separation, will remove their whites from the GSD stud books. BTW - AWSA did state, in their extended GSD Review ad, that "foundation stock would be compromised of imported (FCI) BBS/WSS and UKC WHITE SHEPHERDS. The WGSDCII and WGSDCA whites must be UKC GERMAN SHEPHERDS, so we would NOT be included in the NEW AKC breed BBS/WSS. Those of us, who do not want breed separation, will remain as AKC German Shepherds, and will still breed AKC German Shepherds. If the vote fails, our whites will still be GSD breed standard DQ, and we will continue to show in the venues we are permitted to show in. Why do some NOT want breed separation? I can only speak for myself, and my fellow breeders who have discussed this with me. 1. The gene pool is too small for our whites to grow, and become healthy for many, many years to come. AWSA disagrees, stating that there are so many whites, in other countries, to be tapped into for new blood. Not true. Most of the whites, in other countries, came from mainly 6 bloodlines/breeder in the U.S. and Canada starting back in the late 70s. So, essentially, those foreign breeders have been breeding the same bloodlines as we have, just under different kennel names. Where is all the "new" blood at? Yes, there are some totally unrelated WS/BBS bloodlines out there, but not enough, IMO. And, at the rate that those BBS breeders are using American WS studs, who produce EPI and PF, those BBS dogs are going to be in a world of trouble in no time, IMO. Where will the WS and BBS go after that? No, whites are not immune to the typical GSD health issues. 2. We (WGSDCI / WGSDCA) want our whites to look and move like "today's" German Shepherds, not the GSD of the "early" years. The AWSA and UKC WS Breed standard goes against this. They want a white who resembles the "old" type of GSD; very little angulation, more square, etc. They (WS/BBS breeders) hate "today's GSD. My group has worked very hard to incorporate colored GSDs, and produce whites closer to "today's" GSDs. We are at the other end of the spectrum from what the WS breed separation folks want in a white dog. 3. The folks, from the two different groups, could never get along, or agree on anything. So, that is a huge factor, IMO. So, just separating us out, from your colored GSDs, is not the answer either. I say let the GSDCA membership vote, and let the chips fall where they may. At the end of the day, we will ALL still love our dogs. Barb Hively - PA DNA. It's what makes a white, a German Shepherd ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================