If you think that he is correct when he says that the tibia is the stifle, then you need a better book. > Also you have written that the AXIS of a bone is parallel to a > joint...not the bone itself. That is not what is written in your > original post, which said that the bone itself was parallel to the > joint...not possible. Of course, perhaps our understanding of the > word axis is different............. > Since the original question asked about the croup, my explanation > was only to help Jackie understand how hindquarter structure affected > the croup. I only went into more detail about the structure of the > hindquarters in response to Nancy's post, which I believe to be > incorrect. No one has argued about how or why the croup affects movement; we all seem to agree on that, even Syd when she mentioned the croup on different horses. However, Nancy's explanation was not only incorrect as it referred to location of the croup, but also in that it seemed to stray off into talk about angles and bone structure...not only not pertinent to the original question, but incorrect according to what I know to be correct. I did not and still do not believe that her explanation clarified anything. This latest information is also incorrect...I defy anyone to prove that the tibia is the stifle, for example. Just because someone has written a book or drawn a diagram doesn't mean that it is correct, or that the reader understands. We are all supposed to know what bones make the angles both in the forehand and the hindquarter...none of this explains why you wrote that the croup begins at the 7th vertebra of the loin (incorrect terminology...those vertebrae are the lumbar vertebrae. I occasionally speak to different groups on comparative anatomy...that is, how you can compare your dog's structure to your own...thereby better understand how your dog is made and how he moves. I think perhaps anyone who thinks that the tibia is the stifle needs to sit down, bend their knees, and try to figure out how their tibia (long bones) bends in the middle. Your book may have been written by someone who knew how to work dogs...but I suggest you consult with a veterinarian to learn how the bones fit together. Peggy ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================