[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: The Croup
- From: "Nancy Harper" <nancy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:18:03 -0400
Well, I went back and pulled out several books and & articles on rear
conformation & structure and here is one description I came across.. 'REAR
CONFORMATION IN THE WORKING DOG" written by Bicardo Carbajal, Director of
the 1992 U.S.A. Sieger Show, the article was reprinted from Schutzhund USA
,he writes and I quote verbatim, the parenthesis are his:
"A correct dog with its leg in the extended position and hock perpendicular
to the ground will show two sets of parallel lines: the axis of the pelvic
bone (croup) parallel to the tibia (stifle), and the axis of the femur
(thigh) parallel to the metatarsus (hock) This is shown in Figure 2"
(There is then a sketch of the GS showing the parallel lines) The article
goes on to say
" These parallel lines are intimately related to angulation. Parallelism is
retained through the entire range of motion of the rear leg during the trot
when the leg reaches the position under the body where it is bearing the
most weight and begins to push forward (see Figure 1), the bones are at
right angles to each other as called for in the standard.
What follows then is a rule: Given proper croup position and the hock
perpendicular to the ground, if parallelism is present then the angulation
of the retracted leg will always meet the standard.
The retracted leg can be stacked adopting different angles, but the
hock can fall perpendicular to the ground in only one position.
Bones don't move by themselves. The position of bones is important
because it directly influences muscle action. Muscle length and angle of
insertion are primary factors for efficiency. Long muscles are better
suited for speed, while short muscles provide greater strength. In German
Shepherds, muscles are neither very long (as in Greyhounds) nor very short
(as in Bulldogs); thus they provide a good balance between speed and
strength.
The angle of insertion of the muscle into the skeletal frame is most
favorable when the line passing through the muscle and tendon is at a right
angle to the bone upon which it is acting". End of quote. This article
does go on for several pages.
I would be happy to send it to anyone that is might be interested. A
couple of pages are missing but maybe I can find the others.
Everyone have a safe trip to the National
Nancy
Heinerburg Shepherds Since 1960
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peggy" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <nancy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <MarcatoGSD@xxxxxxx>; <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:15 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: The Croup
Talk about confusing the issue!!!
There are a lot of people who use the words rump and croup=20
interchangeably...however, some research will show that they are=20
different things. Also, both are muscle groups, not anatomical=20
structures, as I said in an earlier post. The rump begins at the loins=20
and blends into the croup...
these are muscle groups we're talking about, remember. You may know=20
exactly where the muscles begin, but they are not bones, and therefore,=20
not anatomical points. Furthermmore, a bone can't be parallel with a=20
joint...the pelvic bone (pelvic girdle) is not a bone anyway, it is 3=20
bones on each side of the spinal column, at the sacral vertebrae; and=20
the stifle is a joint (think of your knee) formed where the uupper and=20
lower thighs meet. .
The upper thigh bone (the femur) is a long bone-the longest in the=20
dog's body, actually. It meets the pelvic girdle at the=20
acetabulum...that's where you take
the Xrays to determine OFA status. The other end of the femur meets the =
bones of the lower thigh at a place called the stifle joint. At the=20
front of the lower end of the femur (upper thigh bone), where it meets=20
the lower thigh bones to form the stifle, there is it a groove where you =
find the patella.....this is held in place by ligaments.
The lower thigh is comprised of two bones that make up that lower=20
thigh...they run from the stifle joint to the hock joint...and there are =
two of them: the tibia and the fibula...the tibia is the larger,=20
stronger bone, and it is the more forward placed of the two. The=20
hock is a joint (your own heel). There is no bone called the=20
stifle...and no bone called the hock...actually, there are 7 bones in=20
the hock joint...the largest of these forms the point of the=20
hock......... of course, both the upper and lower thighs have more to=20
them than bones; they have among other things, muscles.
I have no doubt that Nancy knows what she means...but I believe=20
her language is inaccurate, particularly when she refers to the 7th=20
vertebra of the loin, and therefore, confusing. If we are to count=20
vertebrae, then we should use the correct terminology...the vertebrae=20
she means, I believe, are the 7 lumbar vertebrae that form the upper=20
part of the loin and support the abdominal muscles. So, when she=20
describes the croup as beginning at the 7th vertebra of the loin, I=20
would not know where she is describing the start of the croup...except=20
I believe she is calling the entire group of muscles in that area the=20
croup, instead of the rump and the croup. The rump does begin at the=20
end of the loins, and then it meets the croup, but if we are going to be =
students here, we should recognize these terms as describing two=20
distinctly different groups of muscles, and two different places on the d=
og.
In any case, when 99 out of 100 of us are asked to locate the croup, =
we most of us will place our hands on the part of the dog that lies over =
the end of the lumbar vertebrae and the sacral vertebrae...not over the=20
loin--in other words, we would indicate the rump and the croup. To be =
really specific and accurate, the rump and the croup are NOT the=20
same...the croup is technically the rear, lower area of the rump...just=20
above the set on of tail...........it does NOT begin at the loin or any=20
part of the lumbar vertebrae.
So, you must learn the structure and how it affects=20
movement...what you see is the rump and the croup...and you may see that =
it is flat, or steep, or short, or
long and sloping, or whatever you see....but it is that way because of=20
the dog's anatomy..........and you must learn how the bones work=20
together before you can
figure out what affect the lie of the croup has on the dog's=20
motion.....because the croup and the rump are composed of muscles,=20
conditioning can have a lot to do
with how the dog moves...not just the croup itself, but the condition of =
the muscles........so you must know what lies under those muscles to=20
understand how movement is affected.
And, since most of us don't want to take an anatomy class,=20
even if we could find someone good enough to teach it........I suggest=20
picking up a few of the classic books on canine structure........and=20
then some on movement.
Finally, when you speak of parts of the dog, you can always explain=20
yourself....but when you write about parts of the dog, be sure you know=20
the correct terminology.........and use it. Speaking is for the=20
moment...writing goes into someone's book, believe me, and if you use=20
the wrong words, they will come back to haunt you.
All the best...
Peggy
=20
=20
Nancy Harper wrote:
>Hi Jackie,=20
>Here's my take on the croup and why the croup plays such an important ro=
le in the proper movement of our Shepherds.=20
>Shepherds cannot reach WELL UNDER themselves with their hind leg to acc=
omplish a strong drive if the croup is short, flat or steep. They also ca=
nnot "finish" the drive with complete extension of that hind leg and the =
hock straight out behind them if the croup is not structured correctly. =
A short, flat or steep croup interferes with the dogs ability to drive un=
der and finish the power of the drive with the hind leg and hock fully ex=
tended behind. Obviously, forward movement begins in the rear, the power =
of the movement depends on how the rear assembly, including the croup, is=
structured or designed. The croup begins with the 7th vertebrae of the l=
oin to the first vertebrae of the tail. It took a while to realize the c=
roup was not just a few inches back there. When a correct dog is stand=
ing stacked in a show pose with the hock perpendicular to the ground ther=
e should be two sets of parallel lines: the pelvic bone ,(croup area) , w=
ill be parallel to the stifle and the thig
> h will be parallel to the hock. (In over stretched dogs the parallel li=
nes are off balance) But regardless even if the dog is "overset" a corre=
ct moving dog will have these parallel lines and they are there as the do=
g trots & these lines make up the right angles (angulation) in our Shephe=
rds. So correct rears are about right angles which make up the angulation=
which in turn allows reach under the dog and follow through. The croup =
being part of the angle plays a major role in the movement of the dog.=20
> =20
>
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POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues
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