[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Purpose of dog shows
- From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
- To: InquestGSD@xxxxxxx, jackkilgour@xxxxxxx, janandmort@xxxxxxx, campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx, ELG440@xxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
Been thinking about this...I am a purist when it comes to the breed ring.
I have always felt it a place to showcase and evaluate BREEDING "stock",
starting with the fall country fairs of old where people, dependant for
their very being on their "stock" gathered and evaluated.
BUT...then got to thinking of the stories of dyed horses (to have a matched
pair) my grandfather spoke of lol.
I guess it has always been so, where animals are concerned, ego can get in
the way. (Too often the animals get the short straw...different topic).
As usual, our animals have evolved to meet our needs. Most of us no
longer need our dogs to do the jobs they used to do, except perhaps for the
breeds who were always lap dogs and companions. Most of us don't have sheep
(but we drive hours to herding practice!). Most owners of hunting dogs don't
hunt and I don't know anyone who needs a dog to pull a wagon take things
to market and yet some of their owners go to the same lengths we do to title
their dogs in the venues they were originally bred for as we do. If you
take a step back...silly no?
So if we are honest, it (the sport of showing dogs and for some, breeding
dogs) is all about us, and the extent to which some of us will go to
safeguard a breed standard and all of the hours we put into planning
things...the
holidays with families missed when we have a new litter, the $$$$$s
spent...well it matters not to the dogs and so...and truthfully, even though
we
get wrapped up in it (obsessed some days even! myself included!!!), none of
it eases world hunger or promotes world peace, so again, if we are honest,
what are OUR needs?
I can tell you for me, most days, it's a good ride. I enjoy the babies,
starting a young dog, the planning and the competition. I love the
performance ring and the bond I form with the dogs. I am ecstatic when one
generation is better than the next, crushed and back to the drawing board when
it
isn't. I thoroughly enjoy the friends I've made along the way.
Observing a handful of very pretty, titled GSDs lounging in my office.
Useful? Truthfully...nah, not really. Not in the strict sense of the word.
Most days they please me, showing them off pleases me, hanging with
friends just as goofy as myself pleases me. If you said they protect me and
the
house...ok there's that but there's also an alarm on this place that can
turn it into Fort Knox lol.
I think the really useful dogs (other then service, war or SAR dogs), are
those that go to homes with children who learn so much from raising a dog,
not the least compassion, kindness, and responsibility....and if we are
being honest, you don't need a purebred dog that is the very picture of a
breed standard for that.
So...while I agree, the purpose of the breed ring is to showcase and
evaluate BREEDING stock, and for me it seems counterintuitive to showcase a dog
you can't/wouldn't/"shouldn't" breed...in fact I feel this so strongly I
just bred a bitch before showing her because her own mother was the one and
only awful mother I've ever had and unless her daughter proved to me she
could be a good mommy I wasn't putting the time and $$$s into showing
her...well, as silly as my own actions are I'm hardly the judge of what dogs
others
want to show.
So there's room for purist like me and also for those that consider dog
shows entertainment. If/when I get beat by a dog who, quoting my friend
Ileana "animals that are not healthy,
suffering (and/or producing) different health issues, including, but not
limited
to, sterility. And animals that have to be medicated day to day to live a
decent life. And animals that have to be trained to pass a temperament
test"...well I'll just start planning my next star:))))) And it will be so
outstanding in very way that even a blind judge <VBG> won't be able to deny
it!
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
In a message dated 9/27/2012 11:23:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
InquestGSD@xxxxxxx writes:
Jack, I do love your message below, and couldn't agree more with your
statement that a judge is only solicited and expected to pass judgment on
the
dogs presented to him/her, judging these animals on the day and only
against
the standard and not against half truths, rumors, suspicions and
innuendos. Couldn't agree more, and thank God judges dont have to worry
about that.
I guess the original discussion has deviated. The original point was
directed at exhibitors who foolishly show animals that are not healthy,
suffering (and/or producing) different health issues, including, but not
limited
to, sterility. And animals that have to be medicated day to day to live a
decent life. And animals that have to be trained to pass a temperament
test.
It is foolish to pretend you have a WINNER, when, for the purpose of the
breed and the breed alone, this WINNER is producing sick progeny, or no
progeny at all. Please, let me reiterate, I am not speaking of any one
particular person, but speaking to the fancy in general. Time to wake up
and smell
the coffee.
Morton shared the comment of a fellow judge, and again, no names have been
mentioned.... something to the effect of dog shows being for
entertainment.
That blows my mind. If I wanted entertainment I take a trip to Vegas. I
certainly wouldn't entertain <G> the thought of being amused at the
expense of these dogs health. Can we not have fun with healthy dogs?
It is not about quantity, its about quality.
Just saying.
* Ileana *
Love me, love my dogs.
In a message dated 9/26/2012 3:07:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jackkilgour@xxxxxxx writes:
Morton, your email is a well-written message, and I hope people take time
to
really digest it. Thank you for sharing your opinion...it is one I
respect.
I wish to acknowledge and reiterate you did not write the initial email
entitled Purpose of dog shows. Your emails have been responses, and not
targeted at any one event.
I would like to add to your message (and admittedly go off on a tangent)
by
sharing my understanding of the role of the judge at AKC or CKC licenced
events. When we are orienting and mentoring our new fanciers at a dog
show,
they should be aware of this role, shouldn't they be?
At these events the judge is there to evaluate each German Shepherd Dog
as
it compares to the official breed standard. There are disqualifying
faults
in our breed standard and judges are required to act accordingly.
The standard does not mention a thing about a dog's producing ability or
its
ability to reproduce! The AKC or CKC judge who officiates in North
America
is not provided with the name or pedigree of dog in the ring, nor are any
health records required (recent fertility results, hips, elbows, DM
clear,
etc., etc.,).
The only time a judge assesses a dog's producing ability is when he
judges
a
Stud Dog or Brood Bitch class (not to be confused with a presentation
class). I know a few specialty clubs in Canada that offer this
competitive
class, and I hope more clubs will promote it in the future.
Judges are not there to judge a dog on his reputation. The evaluation
must
be on the day, not on past performances, rumours, half-truths, lies, etc.
When judges fail to act fairly, our sport and our breed takes a giant
leap
into a deep, dark hole.
Like it or not, some judge's selections influence breeding decisions and
thus they affect the future of our breed. It warrants repeating the
judge
is not provided with current health information. Furthermore, and for
example, a dog, exhibitor or judge should not be scrutinized or
criticized
for any award won because the animal is (or is believed to be) sterile.
Let's all know and adhere to the rules of engagement and understand the
limitations therein.
I mention the above facts and opinions to enhance the big picture of dog
shows, and to question the underlying purpose of this thread's genesis
email. Regarding that question, I've already drawn my own conclusions.
jack kilgour
"Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be outraged by silence."
- Henri Frederic Amiel
-----Original Message-----
From: Morton Goldfarb
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:51 PM
To: campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx ; ELG440@xxxxxxx ; inquestgsd@xxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Purpose of dog shows
I respect the opinion of all concerning the "purpose of dog shows" be it
social, entertainment etc. Overall however it should not negate the role
the show has in our Breed's future.
We evaluate producing ability of studs and trends that are either
positive
or negative and incorporate this into future breedings.
We all have fun and "the lawyer" and I have had this conversation before
and
my opinion has not changed and neither has his and that is just fine.
I think and believe the German Shepherd Dog is the finest purebred dog in
the world and I feel responsible to protect it's future and the dog show
is
an evaluation of it's progress and it's future and hence should be a
teaching and learning experience for all.
Thanks,
Morton
What was was, what is is --but what was is and what is was!!
Morton Goldfarb
-----Original Message-----
From: Joan Fox <campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx>
To: ELG440 <ELG440@xxxxxxx>; janandmort <janandmort@xxxxxxx>; inquestgsd
<inquestgsd@xxxxxxx>
Cc: showgsd-l <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Sep 18, 2012 11:38 am
Subject: Re: Purpose of dog shows
Evan,
You are looking at all this from the position you have attained.
The serious new person does not understand these points and attend shows
to
learn from the dog show judges, handlers and breeders what is correct
according to the standard.
What are we teaching them?
Joan
Joan F. Fox
website: http://www.campaignersgsds.com
17500 Haskins Rd.
Chagrin Falls, Ohio 44023
Cell: 440-759-4119
From: "ELG440@xxxxxxx" <ELG440@xxxxxxx>
To: janandmort@xxxxxxx; campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx; inquestgsd@xxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 11:32 AM
Subject: Purpose of dog shows
Dog shows are a lot of things. But, first and foremost they are a hobby
and
way to enjoy yourself. If all you are doing is trying to improve the
breed,
you don't need shows and points. You don't need ribbons and
championships.
Just go around to the kennels and do your own evaluation.
Then, let's take a minute to be honest. The shows are a place to have
fun,
see your friends, laugh a bit, talk dogs, and meet new people. If you
don't
believe that, go to the National.
The standard is how you improve breeding and the future of the breed. We
selectively breed out the traits that WE decide we don't want in our dogs.
But, the genes are always going to be there, unless you believe you are
mutating the breed. I don't believe that. We are renting this breed to
meet
our goals.
Yes, I try to improve my pups with each breeding. I try to improve what I
am
going to show. I try to make the breed better. But, I do this for my
pleasure. When it isn't fun any more, or when it becomes so serious that
I
can only go to a show to evaluate what I want to breed, then I will find
something else to do with my time.
I read, study, learn. That is how I improve my life. I attended school
for
19 years. I show dogs to meet my friends, to enjoy seeing other great
dogs,
(I can stay home if I want to only see wonderful German shepherds), and
to
learn from others.
The purpose of the AKC is to earn money and protect their data base. The
purpose of the GSDCA is to provide a platform and standard to establish
the
basis of our breed. The purpose of dog shows is up to every person. No
one
can tell another what that person's purpose should be. It is an
individual
thing, and up to each of us. And everyone can determine what their
purpose
is. They are, of course, right for them.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Evan L. Ginsburg
gsyrfund.com
Asgard German Shepherds
http://www.asgardgsd.com/
Where Type Movement and Temperament come together
In a message dated 9/17/12 5:50:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
janandmort@xxxxxxx writes:
It should be enjoyable but that is not the primary reason, in my
opinion,
which is to evaluate potential breeding worth and selectively determine
which characteristics should be emphasized and integrated into breeding
programs by the breeders and used as such.
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POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html
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