[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Purpose of dog shows
- From: Morton Goldfarb <janandmort@xxxxxxx>
- To: jackkilgour@xxxxxxx, campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx, ELG440@xxxxxxx, inquestgsd@xxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:48:34 -0400 (EDT)
Jack well said and we, as Judges, have the responsibility of our Breeds future
and should be mindful of trends that are both positive and negative.
The Judges decision significantly influences the "fancy's" opinion and
therefore which lines to breed into.
If certain qualities are pushed then those qualities become "desirable" by the
breeders and everyones desire to do well in shows.
While there are many who are not followers many are and we all are influenced
by these decisions.
I would venture to say if certain characteristics that were not "winning in the
show ring" were pushed by Judges and those characteristics gave rise to winners
then there would be a rush to incorporate those into one's breeding program.
Everyone wants their dogs to win so the Judges and the Shows have tremendous
impact and all can still have fun and visit with friends etc. which we all do.
Our Standard is a good one and very flexible with much subjectivity BUT there
objective criteria that are siginificant regarding Breed Standard.
I will be giving the Judges Education Seminar on Wed. at the National which
will incorporate all facets of Judging for perspective new Judges per AKC
guidelines.
Thanks and your thoughts are very well respected by me and insightful.
"Judge to the Standard not the Market Place"
You are absolutely correct in that we must Judge the Dog at that moment based
on it's characteristics according to the Standard as we have NO knowledge as to
it's ability to breed ,it's offspring or it's status regarding hips etc.
Thanks,
Morton
What was was, what is is --but what was is and what is was!!
Morton Goldfarb
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Kilgour <jackkilgour@xxxxxxx>
To: janandmort <janandmort@xxxxxxx>; campaignersgsd <campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx>;
ELG440 <ELG440@xxxxxxx>; inquestgsd <inquestgsd@xxxxxxx>
Cc: showgsd-l <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, Sep 26, 2012 2:07 am
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Purpose of dog shows
Morton, your email is a well-written message, and I hope people take time to
really digest it. Thank you for sharing your opinion...it is one I respect.
I wish to acknowledge and reiterate you did not write the initial email
entitled Purpose of dog shows. Your emails have been responses, and not
targeted at any one event.
I would like to add to your message (and admittedly go off on a tangent) by
sharing my understanding of the role of the judge at AKC or CKC licenced
events. When we are orienting and mentoring our new fanciers at a dog show,
they should be aware of this role, shouldn't they be?
At these events the judge is there to evaluate each German Shepherd Dog as
it compares to the official breed standard. There are disqualifying faults
in our breed standard and judges are required to act accordingly.
The standard does not mention a thing about a dog's producing ability or its
ability to reproduce! The AKC or CKC judge who officiates in North America
is not provided with the name or pedigree of dog in the ring, nor are any
health records required (recent fertility results, hips, elbows, DM clear,
etc., etc.,).
The only time a judge assesses a dog's producing ability is when he judges a
Stud Dog or Brood Bitch class (not to be confused with a presentation
class). I know a few specialty clubs in Canada that offer this competitive
class, and I hope more clubs will promote it in the future.
Judges are not there to judge a dog on his reputation. The evaluation must
be on the day, not on past performances, rumours, half-truths, lies, etc.
When judges fail to act fairly, our sport and our breed takes a giant leap
into a deep, dark hole.
Like it or not, some judge's selections influence breeding decisions and
thus they affect the future of our breed. It warrants repeating the judge
is not provided with current health information. Furthermore, and for
example, a dog, exhibitor or judge should not be scrutinized or criticized
for any award won because the animal is (or is believed to be) sterile.
Let's all know and adhere to the rules of engagement and understand the
limitations therein.
I mention the above facts and opinions to enhance the big picture of dog
shows, and to question the underlying purpose of this thread's genesis
email. Regarding that question, I've already drawn my own conclusions.
jack kilgour
"Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be outraged by silence."
- Henri Frederic Amiel
-----Original Message-----
From: Morton Goldfarb
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:51 PM
To: campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx ; ELG440@xxxxxxx ; inquestgsd@xxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Purpose of dog shows
I respect the opinion of all concerning the "purpose of dog shows" be it
social, entertainment etc. Overall however it should not negate the role
the show has in our Breed's future.
We evaluate producing ability of studs and trends that are either positive
or negative and incorporate this into future breedings.
We all have fun and "the lawyer" and I have had this conversation before and
my opinion has not changed and neither has his and that is just fine.
I think and believe the German Shepherd Dog is the finest purebred dog in
the world and I feel responsible to protect it's future and the dog show is
an evaluation of it's progress and it's future and hence should be a
teaching and learning experience for all.
Thanks,
Morton
What was was, what is is --but what was is and what is was!!
Morton Goldfarb
-----Original Message-----
From: Joan Fox <campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx>
To: ELG440 <ELG440@xxxxxxx>; janandmort <janandmort@xxxxxxx>; inquestgsd
<inquestgsd@xxxxxxx>
Cc: showgsd-l <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Sep 18, 2012 11:38 am
Subject: Re: Purpose of dog shows
Evan,
You are looking at all this from the position you have attained.
The serious new person does not understand these points and attend shows to
learn from the dog show judges, handlers and breeders what is correct
according to the standard.
What are we teaching them?
Joan
Joan F. Fox
website: http://www.campaignersgsds.com
17500 Haskins Rd.
Chagrin Falls, Ohio 44023
Cell: 440-759-4119
From: "ELG440@xxxxxxx" <ELG440@xxxxxxx>
To: janandmort@xxxxxxx; campaignersgsd@xxxxxxxxx; inquestgsd@xxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 11:32 AM
Subject: Purpose of dog shows
Dog shows are a lot of things. But, first and foremost they are a hobby and
way to enjoy yourself. If all you are doing is trying to improve the breed,
you don't need shows and points. You don't need ribbons and championships.
Just go around to the kennels and do your own evaluation.
Then, let's take a minute to be honest. The shows are a place to have fun,
see your friends, laugh a bit, talk dogs, and meet new people. If you don't
believe that, go to the National.
The standard is how you improve breeding and the future of the breed. We
selectively breed out the traits that WE decide we don't want in our dogs.
But, the genes are always going to be there, unless you believe you are
mutating the breed. I don't believe that. We are renting this breed to meet
our goals.
Yes, I try to improve my pups with each breeding. I try to improve what I am
going to show. I try to make the breed better. But, I do this for my
pleasure. When it isn't fun any more, or when it becomes so serious that I
can only go to a show to evaluate what I want to breed, then I will find
something else to do with my time.
I read, study, learn. That is how I improve my life. I attended school for
19 years. I show dogs to meet my friends, to enjoy seeing other great dogs,
(I can stay home if I want to only see wonderful German shepherds), and to
learn from others.
The purpose of the AKC is to earn money and protect their data base. The
purpose of the GSDCA is to provide a platform and standard to establish the
basis of our breed. The purpose of dog shows is up to every person. No one
can tell another what that person's purpose should be. It is an individual
thing, and up to each of us. And everyone can determine what their purpose
is. They are, of course, right for them.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Evan L. Ginsburg
gsyrfund.com
Asgard German Shepherds
http://www.asgardgsd.com/
Where Type Movement and Temperament come together
In a message dated 9/17/12 5:50:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
janandmort@xxxxxxx writes:
It should be enjoyable but that is not the primary reason, in my opinion,
which is to evaluate potential breeding worth and selectively determine
which characteristics should be emphasized and integrated into breeding
programs by the breeders and used as such.
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POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html
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