[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Prong collars/ Laura/ WHY?
- From: Royal T Shepherds <gina@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:38:42 -0700 (PDT)
This is how I see it, after many years of training and teaching obedience....
I think the prong collar is just another example of our society's need for
instant gratification. The dog clubs, by me, push them like crazy, because
there is an immediate improvement, their training job has now become easier,
and the customer is satisfied. Just look at the idiots out there with Cockers,
Chihuahuas, or other small breeds using them. Why teach them to "really" heel
when you have the magic prong collar? It is also such a hypocrisy, if you
think about it. You cannot have one on your dog at a show, not even on the
grounds of a show, but AKC dog clubs are handing them out in beginner obedience
with the 6ft lead. Proper leashwork isn't even taught half the time
anymore... just buy a prong collar... that'll solve everything. That being
said, I've recommended prong collars to some people in the past. If the whole
class is spent with the dog
choking and coughing, what have they accomplished? Nothing, but possibly
hurting the dog. I don't like it but, on occasion, it is kinder to the dog
than a choke collar..
Gina
ROYAL T SHEPHERDS
http://www.royaltshepherds.com
Home of: Ch Covy Tucker Hill v Royal T's Edsel,CD,NA,CGC,HIC,OFA h/e/t/c
Covy Tucker Hill's Marc Royal T,CD,CGC
Royal T's Wildwood Maggie May,TT
Stonekroft's Renaissance Royal T
----- Original Message ----
From: BlackHawk Farms LLC <blackhawkfarmsllc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: wernersommers@xxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:49:09 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Prong collars/ Laura/ WHY?
I do have a question, and I am not tryng to stir up a hornets nest or
anything, but why do you feel a pinch collar is wrong? is it the image, is
it the stigma, while I do respect your right to disagree, I would like to
know why people are anti prong collars.
I do realize that not everything works for Every dog, and you would find me
hard pressed to use, lets say, a shock collar on an animal, but if it was
the only thing which gave me results and used properly, I cannot dismiss the
fact it may be a useful tool.
It was like when I rode, I had a beautiful western pleasure saddlebred mare
name dream. I rode her in a large port bit that kept her mouth soft, wet and
slobbery, she was happiest when she could roll the cricket around with her
tongue. Never had to tie her tongue down. Now, Most people would say, Thats
a scary looking bit, and yes, in most hands, it is very harsh, but I never
even had to neck rein her, I to "step down" in my stirup and she knew which
way to go. When I wanted her to stop, I would sit back and say "ho".... So
im thinking if shes this responsive with that much bit in her mouth, I
shoudl easily be able to go to an eggbutt snaffle and get the same result.
NO WAY. seems her first trainer tried to set her head in a mild snaffle bit
and she would all but spit it out at you or carry it in her teeth and become
hard mouth. Snaffle versus my 8" shanked 4" high port mouth curb... go
figure.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Werner Sommers" <wernersommers@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:40 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Prong collars and Laura
>I will forever disagree with you!
> However I do respect your right to say what you want.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Laura ...wrote.
> I am late on this subject but I totally disagree. A prong/pinch collar,
> when used correctly, can be a very useful training tool. I work with many
> large breed and tough dogs, including Rotties and Pits. A prong/pinch
> collar imitates Mom's control of her pups or the Pack leader's control of
> the pack. In nature, the alpha dog grabs the neck to control pups and any
> dog who challengers to their authority. The pinch collar simulates that
> control. The pinch collar also allows the dog to self-correct.
> Many years ago, I had a very HARD Lab. I took him to a trainer who
> believed in physical force to train. ( She is now judge of GSD's.) She
> caused permanent neck damage to my dog by stringing him up on a choke
> chain and swinging him around, to get him to comply to her demands. He
> could never get past a CD in obeidience due to his pain and long term
> injuries.
>
> I have used a pinch collar on a few dogs since then. I got compliance
> quickly as they mostly self corrected. It did not take away from the dog
> moving out in front of me, it just gave them control. I do not string them
> up on a pinch nor do I have to be overly physical in corrections. Within
> one or two sessions, the dog understands the plan and no longer needs the
> pinch collar. Some dogs take longer, especially with pet people. However,
> once they understand who is in charge, the pinch collar is no longer
> needed, even for tough dogs. It is not for every dog but it is a good tool
> for dogs who need control.
>
> Laura
>
>
> Werner
> http://imagegermanshepherds.com/
> BISS Am/Can CH. Scher-Lo's Mr Karizma HIC.OFA h&e
> Am.CH. Hadori's Samantha OFA h&e
> B.O.F CH. Pointed, Lorien's Play By Play OFA h&e
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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===========================================================================POST
is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author
and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are
permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l
Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
===========================================================================
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
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