In a message dated 11/27/2005 3:56:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx writes: I beg to differ regarding "Lance free" being "quality free". My foundation line was based on Ellen and Gene Heintz's "Lance-free" lines. Their kennel name was JEENELLYN--some of you oldsters (like me) might remember that their line of black dogs was quality-filled. Not only were they structurally correct (and winners in the breed ring), they could also work in the Schutzhund venue and competed competitively in obedience. I am NOT knocking Lance--he currently is in the pedigree of every dog I own--but to say no other line had quality is poppycock. Penny in NY That's the wonderful thing about our breed here in America we all get to like who ever we want. I don't remember there being anything to compare with him in his prime. I saw most they didn't stay in my mind.And as I look at the lines since lance I see no other lines that have left their mark on the breed until they were combined with lance. Now some lines produced better with Lance than others so we must assume they brought something to the table. Fred M ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================