In a message dated 1/13/2006 9:31:58 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Gsdman2@xxxxxxx writes: I have seen a judge eliminate everything not perfect coming and going, then with the rest still there, working the class and judging what is left. Some times that leave you with a class of average dogs. --------------------------------------------- Perhaps, in that judge's opinion, dogs that are not good coming and going are "average", or even less than average? It really is a matter of persepective ... that particular perspective being clearly written in the standard that judges are required to judge the breed by. You might have a better argument if you use something minor like missing premolars. I could use a minor fault, but then I wouldn't make my point. A judge should look at the total dogs, judge them for what is closet to the standard, and then if they are equal, look at what be a fault. If you start with the faults, you may end up with less than average left to work with. For the same reason you never excuse all but four in a class. One of those left may do something to disqualify themselves. Judging should be done first on quality, and then on faults, only if the decisions are close. It is interesting in the center of the ring, and very different from watching from outside. It is amazing how different they look when you are in charge, and considering the standard, not who is your friend, what is from your lines, or what will do you the most good. Evan _Asgard German Shepherds_ (http://www.asgardgsd.com/) http://www.asgardgsd.com/ Where Type Movement and Temperament come together ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================