The family while growing up would use a corn cob broom with ammonia water mix 50% water 50% ammonia on it. It worked with even the most serious fights by sticking the broom between their noses. Grabbing the dogs or dog by the tail if they have one and spinning them works too. Your right in that some bitches will fight to the end. Males usually quit in time but can still do damage. I know of training classes that use vinegar and water mix but vinegar can blind if gotten in the eyes. Water does not work and yelling makes them fight more as they get very excited. Years ago when the our boys were growing up we owned 4 females and 2 males all related use to be a free for all at times before we separated them on walks. They never seriously injured themselves in any of the fights They all lived in the house and not a one ever fought in it. We had one female that always started it by hen picking at one of her sisters. The sire, son and dam were only involved in one fight with all the sire walked away and the others followed him.. It was always the 3 females or 2 of them before we learned to separate on walks. GSDs are smart and know when enough it enough. Theresa scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 9/25/14, Morton Goldfarb > wrote: First don't get bitten Grab by tail and lift hindquarter off ground and if no tail by hind legs(you can get bitten with this however) Water does not work and you always need 2 people Been there and done that Worst is 2 bitches as they will fight to the death makes Males usually let up after one dominates Been there and done that😇 Morton ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================