There's also the matter that most of the dogs Cesar works with on his show have been through multiple 'trainers' and classes with no success. These dogs often have already bitten their owners and guests, and Ceasar is literally the last resort for these animals and their owners. Even at that, his preferred leash and collar is thread thin - the heavier stuff is only used if that is all the owner has on hand. I don't get the National Geographic channel, but I bought the DVD set after hearing so much about it from coworkers and friends. A few things I don't agree with, but overall, I'm pretty impressed with his methods. Some things I've done for years (my own variations) and some others I've been trying with some success. Janice In a message dated 9/6/2006 6:06:15 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, sheilaofmiami@xxxxxxxxx writes: Then you may never have had to turn a dangerous dog into a pet. I have. Sometimes you do have to get a rough to get the dog to their place in the pack. I try to do it with a lead and collar rather than my hands, I don't like to get bit. But if I can't reason, and I can't muscle MY way into a dog's pack, or if I don't think a dog will be trained by it's owners, I will recommend putting the dog down, and I have. Caeser probably does not show the easy dogs, not much to see. But a difficult dog that takes some drama to realign in the pack, that is worth the effort and expense of filming. It's for the drama. I am always glad when I don't have to get dramatic. But it happens. And sometimes, the people can't do what it takes or the dog is too old and too far into being alpha, there is nothing to be done. It is individual and very hard to decide what to do. I don't do or say anything lightly. sheila ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================