I am sure there are "behind the scenes" but we don't have that to assess, now do we?? I can only judge what I see on the program and I don't think he is a "dog whisperer" at all.. Sue Madlung - Shadowacre Reg'd German Shepherds http://www.shadowacre.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Cinosam GSD To: sheilaofmiami@xxxxxxxxx ; Susan Madlung ; thelist Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Another attack made on Cesar Millan I agree Sheila, his training methods are taking it back to the basics and are so incredibly simple there is little doubt of the outcome if administered properly. Obviously because it is a TV show there is some editing that takes place, so you are never really getting the entire session from beginning to end. Factor in that once he leaves there is a distinct and probable possibility that the dog will revert right back to old behaviors, but it does sound like he follows up with clients on a regular basis. I am particularly impressed with his ability to integrate dogs (30 to 60 at any given time), of all breeds into one cohesive pack. That more than anything convinces me that this gentlemen has a gift that goes beyond simple dog training techniques. As is human nature, with any successful person there are bound to be detractors.......which is why both he and Steve Irwin have come under attack. People cheer for others failures more than they appaud their successes. Cindy Sheila Lieberman <sheilaofmiami@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Then you may never have had to turn a dangerous dog into a pet. I have. Sometimes you do have to get a rough to get the dog to their place in the pack. I try to do it with a lead and collar rather than my hands, I don't like to get bit. But if I can't reason, and I can't muscle MY way into a dog's pack, or if I don't think a dog will be trained by it's owners, I will recommend putting the dog down, and I have. Caeser probably does not show the easy dogs, not much to see. But a difficult dog that takes some drama to realign in the pack, that is worth the effort and expense of filming. It's for the drama. I am always glad when I don't have to get dramatic. But it happens. And sometimes, the people can't do what it takes or the dog is too old and too far into being alpha, there is nothing to be done. It is individual and very hard to decide what to do. I don't do or say anything lightly. sheila Susan Madlung wrote: See, I still think he is a fraud.. I have watched his show.. many times.. I do not like the way he does "behavior modification"... Sue Madlung - Shadowacre Reg'd German Shepherds http://www.shadowacre.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Lieberman" To: ; "Showlist" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:52 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Another attack made on Cesar Millan > No one likes success. And AR's and the like do not think dogs should be treated like, welll, dogs. Caeser will survive this, even if his show is canceled, he will do just fine. Because what he does works and it speaks the language that the dog understands. > > People who do not study wolves and dogs both do not understand how either thinks or needs to be treated. And why would the American Humane Society study the nature of the animals they claim to protect. They humanize animals and then tell us we are cruel for loving them and caring for them in ways that make scense to the dogs. > > We should stand behind what Caeser does, though we might not completely agree with all he does. Like other true animal people, he understands the inner nature of this animal, as Irwin understood reptiles. > sheila > MissHereford wrote: > On the heels of the New York Times article, another attack against Cesar > Millan was made yesterday by the American Humane Association. > > It was released on NewsWire today - > http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=71801 > > I fear that there could be ramifications from this obviously well-organized > campaign to rid the airways of the Dog Whisperer television program. > > I digress. I am a member of an animal behavior organization that has on > several occasions had Cesar bashing threads on their email list. When I > confronted the president of the organization in July she said, "There is > work going on behind the scenes." I told her then if they objected to his > methods, then why not contact him and discuss it rather than bash him > publically. > > Since that time I have not been in the good graces of that organization (the > president even took a few shots at me on the list forethic violations > because I contacted his producers, that I know personally, and mentioning > the problem), which amazes me since the members of that behavioral > organization are supposed to be "Positive" trainers. I could not help but > wonder how "Positive" their efforts to get his show yanked off the air were? > > I'm not sure what the answer is here, but I think it is just plain mean > spirited to go after him in the manner that has presented itself in the last > few days. These people claim Cesar has set dog training back decades - seems > to me their own underhanded actions will ultimately do that in their name - > at least for me it has. I no longer have any respect for the so-called > animal behavioral consultant organization that would stoop to such tactics. > > I did send a letter to the editor of the New York Times in response to that > article, but with this new "Press Release" from the American Humane > Association, there is no publication to respond to. > > I just thought you all would like to know what is happening and I apologize > if this is off topic - but it is dog related and a very serious matter and a > subject that has been discussed on this list previously. > > Faithfully Yours, > Rin Tin Tin > Miss Daphne Hereford > www.RinTinTin.com > > > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues > ============================================================================ > > > > Sheila of Miami > Mernydex GSD's > Loving Obedience Dog Training > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues > ============================================================================ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006 > > Sheila of Miami Mernydex GSD's Loving Obedience Dog Training --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006 ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================