I never liked the tone of the RC papers. Papers like the old Zone VI
Brilliant (now pretty much the same thing as Bergger) fiber-based papers
produce a BLACK black. And they tone very well. RC papers seemed to have
this bluish cast to the black and I never could get the same quality from
toning them that I do from fiber-based papers.
Zack
On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:59 AM Richard Lahrson <gtripspud@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I never liked the feel of RC paper.
Most of the darkroom workers on the list
don't do analog darkroom prints commercially.
Considering the hassle we go through setting
up the darkroom, I see no reason, at least for me,
to use RC paper.
I got a question about Kodak T-8 polysulfide toner:
How long does it take to provide archival protection?
It takes 20 minutes to change color without heating.
Plus how toxic it T-8? Do I need gloves? Gloves are
a hassle.
On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 12:20 AM `Richard Knoppow <dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Try fishing, good way to use up worms.
I will try to answer the question about RC print flatness. It
depends on the weather. Because of the way RC paper is made it
seems to be more sensitive to humidity. I found that in very dry
weather RC tends to curl up tightly and then relax when there was
more moisture in the air. I don't know a good cure for this.
My technique with fiber paper is to flatten it in a dry
mounting press. This was originally a part of the procedure I use
to dry mount pictures. One step is to dry out the mounting
materials and the print using a heated dry mount press. I make a
sandwich of the print with a layer of release tissue over the
emulsion side and clean construction paper as an absorbent layer
on the support side. This sandwich is placed in the heated press
and the press closed by not locked and left for perhaps two
minutes. Then I take the sandwich out and place it under a flat
weight, preferably one made of metal, and let it cool. I find
this will flatten the print and for some reason it stays flat
despite variations in humidity. The trick does not work on RC I
think because there is no way to change the amount of moisture in
the support.
BTW, the traditional way of drying fiber also plays a part in
keeping it flat. That is drying on screens with the emulsion side
facing the screen. This tends to equalize the rate of drying
between support and emulsion. If a fiber print is just hung in
air the emulsion side will dry much faster than the support. I
think something similar happens with old fashioned blotter books.
The emulsion faces the glassine sheet and the support is against
the blotter. Blotter books work pretty well but I don't use them
because there is too much chance of contamination. At least with
screens, especially plastic ones, one can wash them.
I agree that RC is much faster to work with than fiber,
mostly because the wash time is so short even when a wash aid is
used for the fiber paper. BTW, wash aid is not necessary for RC
and probably should not be used.
I don't know what the current thought on print life is but
RC probably is nearly as long lived as properly processed fiber.
If I had to make prints for archival purposes I think I would
still use fiber.
It seems to me the degradation of the images on RC due to
decomposition of the brightener in the support is very much a
thing of the past. However, for either kind of support treating
the prints with a polysulfide toner is still good practice.
I don't know about the shelf life of wash aid. It probably
depends on how well the bottles are sealed. In general, I don't
like old chemistry. At least with developer you can tell if it
works but its not so simple with other stuff except that probably
sodium fixer will last for ever.
I would consider inks a can of worms. I am sure there are
research papers on ink life. I see degraded paper more often than
faded ink but my experience is quite casual. I will be interested
in what others think.
On 8/7/2021 10:02 PM, mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Ok, it is time to open the preverbal can of worms question.==========================================================================================================To
Just how long will an RC print last. Trying to find reliable
data seems to be a problem. One one side you get its trash,
and on the other it will last 70 years or so. One side says
fiber base will last 500 years, but some of the really early
prints are less that 200 years old.
I also know that outgassing was a real problem with the early
RC prints. No doubt about that, but I also know the technology
has improved. If RC has improved to a 70 year life, and our
current variety of (gasp) digital prints are in the 70 year
range (and I read something about inks outgassing as well), why
do art galleries seem to accept a digital print, but an RC
print with roughly the same life is scorned.
RC prints have so many advantages from an ease of use, that its
tough not to consider them. It's also possible my data is flat
out wrong. It is also possible that art galleries perception
is also not in touch with reality. Though a painting can last
for hundreds of years without issue, photography isn't so
fortunate.
In Fort Worth the Kimball Museum of Art has paintings from the
1400s that look like they could have just dried. I doubt any
form of photography can touch that. Like many I sang, please
don't take my kodachrome away, but they didn't listen. For
fiber to actually last longer, it has to be properly fixed,
washed and toned. RC is far more tolerant of mistakes, and yes
we all make them. Be interested on all your thoughts.
Question 2 I have some Ilford Rapid fix that I have had for a
long time. One has been opened but not been mixed into
solution. It is still in the original container, but just not
used. The other is still sealed. Is either any good?
BTW I have some Heico wash aid that I still have from a long
time ago. Again the container has been opened, but the
chemicals have not been mixed with anything. Not sure how
sensitive either fix or a wash aid might be to such conditions.
Finally a sink update. Its almost complete. I have one door
on the unit to build and install, but other than that
construction is complete. It worked out that I have three
levels and the sink. The levels are rock solid and can be
extended out to make it easier for one to proceed to the next.
There is about 8 inches between levels. Should allow rooms for
my hands to work in the gap if needed. A 16x20 tray fits
perfectly. Give a developer, stop and fix tray, with the sink
being a wash or holding station of just water. For fiber
prints or toning, I had to accept a reset. That way I can use
a wash aid, toning and final wash. Anything bigger than 16x20
will need to be single tray processed. That is ok. I can
build a tray for the larger sizes if needed. Truthfully I
think its probably unlikely.
Today I got the water ready, and tomorrow the drain system will
be dealt with. I had to use a normal faucet, instead of a
system I came up with that as soon as hot water got to the
sink, it would be the same temp as it was when I last shut it
off. A conventional faucet was more practical, but I did get a
side sprayer to help with clean up. I think the wife will like
this much better. We all know happy wife, happy life.
None of it was particularly hard for me, but it was the type of
work that can be frustrating. A 16th too long in one place and
it hits on a support. Push to hard, and the nails bend. None
of that was a surprise. I knew up front I was working with
warped wood and scrap many would have discarded. Yet I find a
sense of satisfaction of making what would have been trash into
something useful, even if it isn't fine furniture.
Yes its taken time, but I have added a great deal of storage,
made the darkroom more efficient and made the wife happy in the
process. That makes the time and effort worth it. Looking
forward to using the 4x5 field camera soon
Thanks for your comments in advance
Mark
KG5VE 73
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Richard Knoppow
dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
WB6KBL
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