Re: Java versus Python

  • From: "qubit" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:02:34 -0500

Ah, the unforeseen influence of outside forces...
Who knows but what a new language and paradigm comes along and replaces even 
the current most popular languages...
To each his own. But sometimes a little learning curve pays off in the long run.
--le

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Storm Dragon 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:53 PM
  Subject: Re: Java versus Python


  Hi,
  It could be a good thing that Orca and NVDA aren't written in Java. It's 
nothing against the language itself, but it was acquired by Oracle, and they 
haven't been the nicest of players in the open source community. Android is 
written in Java, and they had a lot of problems with Oracle trying to get a 
slice of the pie. I do realize that 2 screen readers that don't charge anything 
to their users are hardly a good target for the greedy, but then there's the 
trust issue as well. Better to keep it out of temptation. Open Office, for 
example, was hardly a huge cash cow, but the project was forced to fork in 
order to stay, for lack of a better word, good. And, even if all this has 
resolved itself, and even if Oracle decided to play nicely from now on, they 
still need watching, and I personally would prefer not to use anything on which 
I would have to depend every day to them or something they control. I do have 
an Android, but I do think Google can hold their own against them, or if worst 
comes to worst, switch languages in a hurry. sure it would be expensive, but 
it's Google after all lol.
  Thanks
  Storm
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  On Sat, 2011-06-18 at 19:56 -0500, John J. Boyer wrote: 
Why are NVDA and Orca written in Python? With SWT they could be written 
inn Java. SWT has an accesibility package. In BrailleBlaster so far I 
have used a StyledText widget for the braille and Daisy views. It works 
with Jaws, Orca and VoiceOver right out of the box. people have been 
surprised that the Java Access Bridge is not needed. There are some 
accessibibility quirks, so we will  probably supplement StyledText with 
some things from the accessability package.

BrailleBlaster is run from a simple desktop shortcut to the jar file. 
For a screen reader you would want an exe. This could be done using JNI. 
In fact, I looked into this before realizing that it wasn't needed for 
BrailleBlaster.

John

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 05:33:55PM -0400, Ken Perry wrote:
> This is true python was great but we had to ditch it because the python
> framework slowed what we were doing way to much so we have now went to a
> typed language but still use some scripting style language for lighter
> lifting.
> 
> Ken
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of black ares
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:26 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
> 
> You are right john,
> developing "quick" also at least often means "developing for the moment", on
> 
> the long run this gain in productivity is over passed by the mentenance 
> heavy duty.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 3:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
> 
> 
> > One reason we chose Java for BrailleBlaster is SWT. It really works as a
> > cross-platform GUI builder. Once you get into a complex project the
> > advantages of being able to develop something quickly in Python are much
> > less.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 03:22:52PM +0300, black ares wrote:
> >> In fact it isn't a matter of preference.
> >> Best trained profesionals in this area choose the platform and technology
> >> best tailored to the project needs.
> >> So If I have a project that I can do better and quick in python than I 
> >> will
> >> choose that langgage.
> >> If options are better in java I will choose it.
> >> Depends very much on the project requirements.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "David Tseng" <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 5:15 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
> >>
> >>
> >> >I personally find arguments about programming languages much analogous
> >> >to those seen in politics.  Both sides have great points but tend to
> >> >drive one another towards opposite extremes.  Some camps are die hard
> >> >dynamic language practitioners while others stick to strongly typed
> >> >code.
> >> >
> >> >I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the battle
> >> >historically.  Most of the industry writes in C-styled languages like
> >> >C/C++, java, etc.  Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost.  Python,
> >> >as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to actually
> >> >code, is still largely a wrapper on C.  For those who want absolute
> >> >performance, it's considered still an extra level of indirection
> >> >that's not worth the productivity gain.
> >> >
> >> >I love python and its free-form style and the amount of progress you
> >> >can make using it.  Python excels at the rinse and repeat (compile,
> >> >run, fix) style of coding.  The few seconds you need to compile a
> >> >C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in python.
> >> >You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java, but can
> >> >independently mix in functional aspects if you wish.  You can just as
> >> >easily go OO if you want as well.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On 6/17/11, Alex Hall <mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most situations. I
> >> >>would probably give up if the only option were php, since I really
> >> >>hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy enough, but I
> >> >>agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's ease of use and
> >> >>readability, plus you can create executables with it, something that
> >> >>is difficult in java. Some people don't like that python is loosely
> >> >>typed, but I prefer saying:
> >> >>name=raw_input("Enter your name: ")
> >> >>to, if memory serves:
> >> >>name=new String();
> >> >>in=new InputReader();
> >> >>name=in.readLine();
> >> >>or something along those lines.
> >> >>
> >> >>On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>>I've used both. I really like python because it comes on most *nix
> >> >>>systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability and 
> >> >>>versatility.
> >> >>>Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to me. That and
> >> >>>they seem to have some serious naming convention issues. Sometimes
> >> >>>things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makes more sense.
> >> >>>On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >> >>>>There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about Python. 
> >> >>>>Why
> >> >>>>is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx makes a lot more 
> >> >>>>sense
> >> >>>>and it is just as powerful, if not more. A command-line build system
> >> >>>>like ant can take most of the hassle out of working with Java 
> >> >>>>classes.
> >> >>>>personally, I prefer this to Eclipse.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6, Eclipse 
> >> >>>>SWT
> >> >>>>and Apache Ant.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>John
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>--
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Take care,
> >> >>>Ty
> >> >>>my website:
> >> >>>http://tds-solutions.net
> >> >>>my blog:
> >> >>>http://tds-solutions.net/blog
> >> >>>skype: st8amnd127
> >> >>>My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!
> >> >>>
> >> >>>__________
> >> >>>View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> >>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>--
> >> >>Have a great day,
> >> >>Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
> >> >>mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
> >> >>__________
> >> >>View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >__________
> >> >View the list's information and change your settings at
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> >> >
> >>
> >> __________
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> >
> > -- 
> > John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> > Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> > http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > Madison, Wisconsin USA
> > Developing software for people with disabilities
> >
> > __________
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> > 
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