Re: Best Java Guides for a Newby?

  • From: David Tseng <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 09:04:24 -0700

Hey Jim,

Python packages everything including integers, strings, etc into "objects".

Objects are nothing but conceptual organizations of data and
functions.  The nice part about python or similar languages like
javascript is if you can understand closures, scope, and "symbol"
tables, then you can get a pretty good idea of how classes are built.

As for the java discussion, I agree with everyone who says to go
command line first.  Eclipse or any other ide hides a lot of what's
going on.  For someone starting out, it'll probably hinder
understanding the basics.

Java's hard simply because to write a hello world program, you've got
to write a static main which needs as everything in java does, be
bound to a class.

One other random tip....try writing character for character the
program you've got up on a webpage.  Rather than copy/paste or not
writing it at all/reading through it, actuallly typing it out helps a
great deal in my experience.

On 7/7/11, Homme, James <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi,
> This isn't one of thus my language is better than yours posts.
>
> I realize I'm opening up a big can of argumentitive worms here, but I would
> like to ask this. From what I'm reading, the Python people are seeming to
> say that everything, even if it looks like it's not an object gets turned
> into one. Am I reading  correctly? In case I'm reading incorrectly, which is
> likely, check this out.
> http://diveintopython.org/getting_to_know_python/everything_is_an_object.html.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:14 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> One minor correction, java is not a fully object oriented language. It's
> practicle in that there are still primatives like int, float, and so on.
> They do have object counterparts though.
>
> But yes, compared to Python and the rest, it's more object oriented than
> anything those guys have to offer.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:05 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> Well the problem with Java is that it is a full object oriented language.
> This means before writing one bit of code you need to know three things.
>
>
> 1)      How to import stuff
>
> 2)      2) what is an object
>
> 3)      What are methods.
>
> Without those three things you cannot do anything in java.  That is why
> python and other interpreted languages are easier to learn.  You don't even
> need to know what a function is to make something happen in python or perl
> or languages of the type.
>
> So I guess if I was writing a tutorial I would have to really clearly
> describe the above before anyone could go on.  Now with that said once you
> learn those three things Eclipse gets you going quick.  If  a person doesn't
> understand methods (functions in java) it doesn't matter if they are using
> eclipse or notepad they are so screwed.
>
> Ken
>
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 7:22 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> Hi Ken,
> I will definitely pop Eclipse open and take another look at the help
> features. Perhaps my frustration level goes up faster than some. The only
> thing I might argue with you about is that perhaps someone might start with
> Eclipse, and not even know what a function is. My goal was to reduce the
> learning curve so that the only thing being learned is the language.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 7:17 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> I have to disagree with this.  There is nothing like using eclipse when
> you're learning a language.  Let's say you are in Android and need to make
> an Application.  Ok so you start it up and there is an Activity class.
> You're in your text editor what do you do?
>
> You go out on line or into a document and try to read up on all the possible
> functions you can run in an activity.   Not bad but why not make it quicker.
>
> Just arrow to your myactivity and use the source menu and go down and select
> override members.  Then you can arrow through the list of things you have
> that you can do in that class.  You check a few and tab down and hit ok.
> Now you have 6 stub functions that work perfect.  You then go down to the
> keydown function that you just added  and arrow over keyEvent and select
> help it tells you all the functions
>
> Eclipse and Visual studio are  not just environments but they are  great
> learning tools.  Not to mention learning the environment now with an easy
> program will  speed up both development of a harder program but it also
> teaches you how to download other peoples projects and get them running.
>
> Heck for that matter if you don't use eclipse you have to learn another way
> to compile your project.  Which normally means you start compiling at the
> command line with javac.  That sounds easy but how many of you have tried
> this and ran into the java path problems.  That is not something you want to
> get a new user into right away.  Then if you want to get real bold and use
> ant as a new programmer you better have a lot of antacid.
>
> So I guess in short I just wanted to say sure Eclipse is a big pig but the
> gains for a new coder is pretty high if you learn to use it.  Now if you're
> on a Mac sorry to hear it while I like Mac I have not been impressed with
> the amount of work I had to go through to get Eclipse set up.  I use it on
> both Mac and Windows but I will tell you there is nothing like Eclipse and
> Jaws 12.  I use no scripts and do just fine.
>
> Ken
>
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 6:49 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> Hi Brandon,
> This is my opinion, so take with a grain of salt. Right at the beginning
> with Java, I feel that you should use a text editor. Personally, I prefer
> EdSharp, but there  are lots of good ones. Learn to use the command line
> tools that come with the Java Development Kit. After you have written some
> programs, and you know what's going on with basic Java, start to use
> something like Eclipse or Net Beans. I have no experience with SodBeans, but
> I understand that that package for NetBeans is making a big difference in
> NetBeans accessibility. So scrap fancy editors for now.
>
> Jim
>
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith
> (Biggs)
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:17 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> Thanks and I started reading those, the only problem is I use Eclipse and
> these talk about the Netbeans IDE which I think it is inaccessible.
> My big question is: What are all the differences in the different things you
> can create with the new menu in Eclipse? There are like projects, classes,
> Java projects and all kinds of other things that aren't really talked about
> with Java.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
> Check out
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/brandonkeithbiggs
> Also add me on facebook!
> brandonkeith
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=675097942
> And for my resume go to:
> http://www.sfcasting.com/brandonkeith
>
> From: Homme, James<mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 9:36 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> Hi,
> I think that, as with many things, this is one of those things that can be
> different, depending on the learning style and knowledge of the person.
>
> Speaking just for myself, I get more out of tutorial style books, when I'm
> learning a language. I tend to freeze up at reference type material that is
> full of code and short on words, but that's my taste.
>
> According to me, you will probably do well with the nutshell books, if you
> already know lots of programming concepts and want to see how certain things
> are done in Java. On the other hand, you may do better if you have little
> programming experience by looking at the Java Tutorial, which takes things a
> concept at a time and explains them with lots of words and examples. You can
> see that at http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/reallybigindex.html.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 12:30 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> I would recommend if you have a subscription to bookshare.org, that you
> download a copy of "Java in a Nutshell".  It is a nice summary of features
> with some examples.  I was going to read "Thinking in Java, 4th edition",
> which I forked $25 for online, but got a package that I cann't display on my
> system.  I have been unable to read more than the preface, and most the
> time, the html just freezes things.  So I'm pitching it.  A shame as it
> sounds like a useful guide to using java the way it is meant to be used.
>
> Online there are also common tasks implemented in java, which you can find
> in http://commons.apache.org/
> Good luck and happy hacking.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Florian Beijers<mailto:florianbeijers@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 6:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Best Java Guides for a Newby?
>
> Hello Brandon,
>
> Do you have any form of IM or perhaps skype? I would like to help you but
> it's easier for me to recommend something if i know a bit more about your
> background.
>
> Florian
> On Jul 6, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Brandon Keith (Biggs) wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm new to programming, (I have just made it past "Hello World") and am
> looking for some guides.
> I would like to learn Java, but I'm not quite sure where to start. I
> downloaded the 500 or so documents from the "Java Documentation" at:
> http://www.nonvisualdevelopment.org/node/20
> as well as reading all the tutorials on Eclipse and Java.
> I've installed the SDK 1.6 and Eclipse, is there anything else I need? I see
> there are Jaws scripts for Eclipse, where do I insert those?
> I arrowed through the 500 documents dealing with Java and found:
> Java Tutorial 3rd Edition, a short course on the basics
> but I see it was written in 2001 and only deals with Java 1.3 and Windows
> 2000 and before. Is this something I should read? What books best describe
> the language in an exciting and useful format? I'm wanting to eventually
> program for Android, but I think that is stepping a little ahead of myself.
> Where do I start?
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
> Check out
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/brandonkeithbiggs
> Also add me on facebook!
> brandonkeith
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=675097942
> And for my resume go to:
> http://www.sfcasting.com/brandonkeith
>
>
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