I was interested and surprised to read the ‘mesh bad; solid good’ views on the
thread. I picked up the impression when gearing up for my first winter a few
months ago that damp was a greater threat to the colony than cold and so a mesh
floor was better. I thought that I had read this on the group and so acted
accordingly, but it must have come from a conventional source. Anyway, the
colony which Paul very kindly installed seems to be thriving in its WBC, so no
harm done. But I’ll put in a solid floor if they’ll like that better.
Will Spray
Sent from my iPhone
On 7 Apr 2021, at 19:20, Oxnatbees <oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In general, solid floors are good. Mesh floors bad. Because they disrupt the
preferred ventilation of the bees', who are attempting to maintain constant
brood temperature and high humidity. So the bees need to burn more fuel to
keep a hive with an (open) mesh floor going.
But.
National hives are very large, so unless you are turbocharging your colony by
stimulative feeding / buying fecund queens, like a commercial beek, there may
be too few bees to keep its walls warm. In some climates. Cold walls -->
condensation --> mould, chalk brood.
So you get major influencers like Roger Patterson (50 yrs experience,
Nationals) campaigning AGAINST mesh floors, BUT he runs huge commercial
colonies.
So I don't know the answer for Nationals for sure. I suspect solid floors are
fine but I am keen to learn how others find them in practice, rather than my
theory...
Paul
On Wed, 7 Apr 2021, 19:07 Will H, <whanrott@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Kerry,
I use the extra deep Commercial brood boxes. They're almost the same
dimensions as the Nationals but there are a few small dimensional
differences. The National and Commercial boxes can be used together because
the important dimensions (bee space; horizontal length and width) are the
same. Thorne sell solid floors for Commerical hives. Just put the entrance
block in so that it seals the exit.
I haven't drilled these holes in my hives but I'd be interested to find out
how you get on. Commercial hives have runners so the frames face only one
way, so you'll need to choose between 'warm way' and 'cold way' before you
drill.
I don't know about a solid crown board, but I used a regular board with a
feeder eke on the top. I stapled hessian into the eke to create a loose
floor. It then it sits on top of the crown board, filled with insulation
just like a Warre. I did less well with external insulation, but that's
another topic.
Will
From: oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <oxnatbees-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of Kerry Dawson <kerrydawson99@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 07 April 2021 17:59
To: oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <oxnatbees@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [oxnatbees] Converting a National to a Natural?
Hi Everyone,
I have a TBH and a Golden hive and I am toying with the ideal of getting an
extra-deep National brood box and an extra-shallow super, supplied by
Heather Bell Bees in Cornwall, where I purchased my TBH. I plan to add two
entrance holes to the side of the brood box (not unlike my TBH and GH). I
like the idea of having standard size parts, such as the frames, easily
available to replace and this company offers the very shallow super for
taking small amounts of honey.
I have asked Heather Bell if they supply solid floors, without mesh – they
don’t. So, I asked this question and wondered what the group thought about
the reply:
Q: I’m planning to add entrance holes into the side of the brood box (bit
like your TBH which I already have) so for the floor maybe the thick crown
board without a central hole would work instead. Are you able to supply
without a hole?
A: Although colonies will use an additional upper entrance as you describe,
it must be an additional entrance. A bottom entrance is necessary so bees
can remove dead bees easily and a solid floor is just a bad idea; reducing
ventilation, encouraging damp, increasing Varroa build up. That's why we
don't use or supply them.
From my experience (only 2 years), my TBH with holes and my GH with holes
have never had a build up of dead bees. In the case of the TBH there is a
horrible build up of debris beneath the mesh floor, which the bees can’t
clean up and so they rely on me to do it causing more disturbance than I
prefer (I plan to get rid of this just as soon as I am able).
Has anyone done this conversion before and is a bad idea? Eric, I think you
might have?
Kerry
