RE: Newbies welcome, or not?

  • From: Michael Milligan <Michael.Milligan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "'oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:13:01 -0500

Here, to me, is the whole point, as spoken by Denham Eva:

"As for humor, it is all well and good but as I remind my kids, it isn't
funny anymore when it
gets personal."

Mladen is one of the most intelligent and knowledgeable people I know of on
this list. When used properly, he has a good sense of humor. But when his
humor becomes destructive, biting and personal, it is too much and has no
place here. Those who like it, like Rachel and a few others, perhaps would
not were it directed at them. I don't like it, whether directed at me or
others. Can anyone who likes that kind of humor show me an example of it
directed at them? 

Whoever said Mladen was "driven" off this site needs a reality check. I
would welcome him back, even though, if I were to guess, it would be that
his contempt for me is greater than for anyone else on this list. AS I said,
he is intelligent and likable. And then a switch turns, and the good natured
ribbing becomes merciless mocking of the most denigrating nature. Having
witnessed so much of it growing up in the 50's and 60's - I'm 51 - I can
never seem to get myself to stand idly by without a protest, especially when
it is directed at a newbie. 

Myself, I have been told by him that the fact that I have an OCP (which I
have never felt or portrayed as something that proved me a good DBA because
I am positive it doesn't) is a testament to the weakness of the program and
easiness of the exams. I've been told much worse and more personal as well.
All those who defend his merciless mocking as though it were good-natured
ribbing do not only the list a disservice, but Mladen and themselves as
well. Somehow, he doesn't see the bright line that most see, when ribbing
turns to cruelty, and takes that giant leap forward as though it were a baby
step of small degree, while a few on here keep telling him, "it's OK,
they're asking stupid questions, and you've taught me a lot, so go ahead and
vulcanize them with your cruel wit. We'll back you, laugh with you, or just
ignore it."


It has reached the point where it isn't funny anymore.


Michael Patrick Milligan
Salt Lake City, Utah




-----Original Message-----
From: Denham Eva [mailto:EVAD@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:18 AM
To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Newbies welcome, or not?


Another point of view.

I started out very inexperienced (as we all did). One of the most
important solutions to a problem I had was supplied by Rachel, who had
in one mail answered and given me my solution. Now that solution was by
no means evident at first. The scenario was the production server would
refuse further connections to the database after about 100 sessions
(Dedicated Server), obviously test system worked fine, I scurried around
reading, searching, rtfm-ing like mad. One comment from Rachel in that
mail sent me rtfm-ing and hence the solution and that was something
along the line of "It sounds as if you need to enable MTS" followed by
more info. Now this sort of solution is not that evident in the
documentation, at least not three years ago, to a seriously stressed,
still on three month performance evaluation, badly in need of a break
DBA. I am still here thanks to Rachel's help. (Thanks Rachel!)

I would encourage all listers that we should not reject newbies (we too
were there once); also to keep in mind that we don't know what
stress/pressure that person on the other side of that keyboard is under.
Have you ever tried reading the FM when the production system has gone
belly up? Not to mention we DBAs are non-entities until that DB is down,
then even the Managing Director, IT Director stand over your shoulder
scowling "What the h*ll are you reading for? Do Something!"
It after all looks more impressive if you are actually typing something.
I know I've been there!

But, on the flip side you all have valid points. As for humor, it is all
well and good but as I remind my kids, it isn't funny anymore when it
gets personal.

My 0.02c worth
Denham  =20
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