[opendtv] Re: Vizio's very wide CinemaWide 21:9 TV is a revelation for movie buffs

  • From: Craig Birkmaier <craig@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 08:55:12 -0400

At 7:38 PM -0500 8/1/12, Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
Anamorphic squeeze, which that article assumed, if it were actually done in this 2.33:1 example, means that you pack the entire horizontal image tightly, in the 1920 horizontal pixels sent (or recorded in the disc). And you fill the entire 1980 vertical pixels with image content.
Yes Bert, this is a valid explanation of one type of anamorphic squeeze that is possible, with the correction that John made. i described another way that Hollywood is getting around the CE industries obsession with 16:9.
Where you are wrong, is that this is possible for existing media such as Blue Ray, and HDMI can certainly carry the pixels, no matter what the anamorphic squeeze of the samples or the intended image aspect ratio when stretched out on a compatible display such as the new Vizio. It is likely that the Vizio display would handle the stretch to fill the display, since Blue Ray can only output the squeezed 1920 x 1080 raster.
When the 2.33:1 display receives this envelope, it would stretch the image in those incoming 1920 horizontal pixels into 2560 pixels of the display. And all of the vertical 1080 pixels are used for image. That's what anamorphic squeeze MEANS. Squeeze in transmission or storage, then un-squeeze at the decoder, before sending to the display. 

Correct. This is possible today with Blue Ray and HDMI.
That's why, if this were even allowed, the image look tall and skinny if sent "as is" to a regular 1920 X 1080 display.
There is no way to NOT allow this. It is simply a decision made by the compressionist when encoding the source for Blu Ray distribution.
But that is not allowed. Not for any analog or digital interface available in TV sets. E.g. not for HDMI. And not for AFD. 

You are incorrect.
Instead, what Hollywood "has been doing for years" is to put these images into only one of two types of container: a 4:3 or a 16:9. And any further adjustment in image aspect ratio is done by making some of the vertical or horizontal pixels black.
This is EXACTLY what I said. This is how aspect ratio accommodation is accomplished. A fully conformant implementation of modern codecs would allow for higher quality since there would be no constrain on what is encoded.
So, any 2.33:1 image, on any existing consumer disc, TV transmission, or what have you, MUST be sent (or stored on disc) as 1920 X 840 actual illuminated pixels. I think Jeroen said 1920 X 910 pixels, but same basic deal. No anamorphic squeeze going on here. Just masking of some pixels.
Not true. You can use the full 1920 x 1080 and stretch it out on a 2.33 display, and you can squeeze the raster creating black bars for 16/9 displays.
Anything done to make the black bars go away is then done by the display, as cropping, not as anamorphic un-squeezing.
Depends on the display. You may just crop; you may squeeze vertically creating black bars above and below; and you may stretch horizontally to fill wider displays such as the Vizio.
It's not a codec issue, for the 100th time. It's an issue with what the STB thinks the display can do.
Sorry Bert, but this is a codec issue. The tools are there to encode 2560 x 1080 without a squeeze; but no CE product can deal with this completely conformant codec implementation because they only support a subset of the possible formats established by the codec standard.
Non conformant, brain dead STBs and DVD players force the content creator to use just a few containers and rely on the display to handle proper presentation. The FACT that PCs deal with these issues AUTOMATICALLY using any standard conformant raster should tell you something. 

Regards
Craig


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