[ncolug] Re: How can only the ethernet ports blow out on the wireless router???

  • From: Larry DiGioia <larry@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: ncolug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 07:30:11 -0400

http://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Surge-Protector-Lightning-Arrester/dp/B003MN09DA

On 09/15/2011 06:24 PM, Kory Pounds wrote:
I researched surge protection myself and read about MOV's. Yes, they
are good but they do indeed degrade as they take hits. And there are
nicer surge protectors with indicators that show the current level of
protection that it is providing.

However, how does this protect an ethernet line? I have not seen a
surge protector with an "ethernet in-out" along with the regular
outlets, phone and cable protections. In the story that I gave, the
upstairs ethernet line was hit with a surge and not the actual power
wiring going up to that level or anywhere else. My brother's laptop
still worked, including the wireless part of it, but the NIC went out.
How could this have to do with a traditional surge through the power
cable? If the surge started in my brother's laptop, then the whole
thing would have been damaged as the surge went out of the ethernet
port and down the line into the basement to the router. If I am
missing something here, then please let me know! I am not an
electrician or systems/network guy. Is it actually possible for it to
start int hat laptop but ONLY hurt the NIC as it traveled out? If that
isn't the case, then we are not talking about traditional surges
through the house's wiring.

If there is not a device that is specifically designed to protect from
ethernet surges ONLY, then I am willing to buy a couple of cheap
Netgear switches that I am seeing at Amazon.com right now. I would
rather have that blow out than my nicer dual-band Cisco wireless
4-port router or someone's ethernet port in a laptop/PC.

What does everything think about this? I know I am not the only one
who wants to protect our expensive equipment from being damaged like
this.

Kory

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Chuck Stickelman
<cstickelman@xxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
I want to expound on what Larry has said about surge protection.
You can certainly find inexpensive products that will claim to be surge
protectors.  Avoid cheap solutions for this!  (Other than Larry's
recommendation for sacrificial hubs, I love that one!)  There are cheap
devices called Metal-Oxide Varistors (MOVs) that can absorb electrical
surges.  Unfortunately, every time a MOV takes a hit it is less able to
provide protection, until ultimately, they die.  Some manufacturers have
spent extra money designing LEDs that tell you when the MOV is dead and
the unit needs replaced, but most don't bother.  (Not to mention that
many people would fail to check the LED status or ignore the warning...)

Manufacturers of high quality surge protection often brag about the fact
that their products use no MOVs.  Look for that.  Also, you *may* be
able to tell a little about the quality of the product by the size of
their equipment guarantee.  (The trick here would be to read the fine
print... and know what exclusions exist...)

In the end though, as Larry mentioned in his first response, lightning
is a whole subject itself.  It might not be possible to identify and
protect every path that lightning can take to get into your network.

Chuck

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 22:28 +0100, DiGioia, Larry wrote:
The answer is, there is no affordable product that will protect your equipment.

A good Ethernet surge suppressor goes for $$85 and up. I have one in my outdoor 
transmitter shack, on the CAT5 line that goes to the top of my 110' tower, 
where there are multiple wi-fi panels. It also requires a good ground, meaning 
an RF ground - which would be copper strap attached to a 6' ground rod less 
than 10' away. This is probably not practical for you.

My tower recently took a direct hit - destroying the panels, and a key component of 
my antenna rotor. But it did not make it into the house. (I also have coaxial surge 
suppressors, and rotor control line surge suppressors, all mounted on a solid copper 
bar, which is tied through that 3" copper strap, to a network of ground rods. 
Altogether, I have 20+ ground rods around the house...)

I would recommend that you consider using sacrificial hubs - old hubs or 
switches at strategic points. They tend to not transfer hits to other ports, 
although this is not a certainty. But for 0 - $10 or so, I would say they are 
worth it.

And there's always wi-fi...

-----Original Message-----
From: ncolug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ncolug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Kory Pounds
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:06 PM
To: ncolug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ncolug] Re: How can only the ethernet ports blow out on the wireless 
router???

Everyone,

After reading Larry's reply, how can I protect against this? Is it
even possible to protect against this? I really do not want to have to
bother with unplugging ethernet cords every time we think there might
be another storm. What about if we do not realize a storm is about to
enter the area?

Is there something that can protect an ethernet line from surges? What
about utilizing some cheap hub where the long ethernet line from the
second floor can plug into right before the hub plugs into the router
next to it in the basement, so that the cheap hub blows out instead of
the nicer, more expensive wireless router?

There has to be an answer to this. What do you all make of this? Thanks,

Kory

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 7:29 AM, Larry DiGioia<larry@xxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
Lightning is a whole subject in itself. As a ham radio operator, I am quite
familiar with this, and I have also seen many episodes like your in the
workplace.

What is happening is that the ethernet (CAT 5) wire is acting like an
antenna, picking up the lightning like a radio wave. Lightning IS in fact,
RF.

The results vary at different points and places because of differences in
lengths of the cable (resonances) and differences in the potential with
respect to ground of other connected equipment. NOT being plugged into AC
power would help in this case.

You may also see ethernet ports fail later due to "degradation" as opposed
to outright destruction.


On 09/14/2011 11:15 PM, Kory Pounds wrote:
Ok everyone,

This is a total weird one to me. Maybe you can help me figure out
exactly why this happened. Let me explain:

This happened during that violent storm we had during the night a
couple of weeks ago, with plenty of lightning, etc. At some point our
power went out for only about 15 seconds or so (and I heard a "snap"
in the background, too). Anyhow, after the storm passed through, I
found that the 4 ethernet ports on the wireless router (a single band
Linksys) failed and would not work at all. However, the router still
powered up and the wireless part still worked. I could still access
the internet wirelessly through it. I know that it was not a power
surge because the DSL modem was fine and both items are plugged into
the same power backup/surge protection battery.

The router and modem are in our basement. My bedroom is in the
basement and that is where I have my laptop most of the time, with it
plugged in by ethernet when it is there. My laptop was fine after this
incident, no blow-outs or anything else. My laptop stayed plugged into
the power and ethernet all during that night. I verified my laptop by
plugging its line into the DSL modem and I accessed the internet. I
unplugged it and I accessed it successfully by wireless as well. So I
knew my laptop was fine and the problem was with the router.

However, my brother has an ethernet line that runs from another of the
router ports up to the second floor of the house, where he has a desk
where he often works online with his laptop. That night his laptop was
up there and plugged into that ethernet line. In the morning he found
that his ethernet port/NIC card in his laptop was blown. He could only
access the router through the laptop's wireless part.

How in the world could this have happened?! Why would only the
ethernet ports on the router be affected? Why would my brother's NIC
be affected on the second floor and not mine in the basement? Thanks
everyone!

Kory "The Perl Guru" Pounds

P.S. I ended up swapping in a nicer, dual-band Linksys router that I
had packed away as a backup. I definitely DO NOT want some similar
tragedy to happen to that one as well! Also, is there any sort of
"surge protection" for ethernet lines (if it is needed at all)???

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"The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook."

                                    William James
                                


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