[ncolug] Re: How can only the ethernet ports blow out on the wireless router???
- From: Chuck Stickelman <cstickelman@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ncolug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:11:13 -0400
Notice that this device only provides protection on pins 1/2/3/6 so it
would not work on gigabit ethernet. (Not a HUGE limitation, but
attention to details is extremely important when dealing with lightening
and surge protection.)
Chuck
On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 07:30 -0400, Larry DiGioia wrote:
> http://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Surge-Protector-Lightning-Arrester/dp/B003MN09DA
>
> On 09/15/2011 06:24 PM, Kory Pounds wrote:
> > I researched surge protection myself and read about MOV's. Yes, they
> > are good but they do indeed degrade as they take hits. And there are
> > nicer surge protectors with indicators that show the current level of
> > protection that it is providing.
> >
> > However, how does this protect an ethernet line? I have not seen a
> > surge protector with an "ethernet in-out" along with the regular
> > outlets, phone and cable protections. In the story that I gave, the
> > upstairs ethernet line was hit with a surge and not the actual power
> > wiring going up to that level or anywhere else. My brother's laptop
> > still worked, including the wireless part of it, but the NIC went out.
> > How could this have to do with a traditional surge through the power
> > cable? If the surge started in my brother's laptop, then the whole
> > thing would have been damaged as the surge went out of the ethernet
> > port and down the line into the basement to the router. If I am
> > missing something here, then please let me know! I am not an
> > electrician or systems/network guy. Is it actually possible for it to
> > start int hat laptop but ONLY hurt the NIC as it traveled out? If that
> > isn't the case, then we are not talking about traditional surges
> > through the house's wiring.
> >
> > If there is not a device that is specifically designed to protect from
> > ethernet surges ONLY, then I am willing to buy a couple of cheap
> > Netgear switches that I am seeing at Amazon.com right now. I would
> > rather have that blow out than my nicer dual-band Cisco wireless
> > 4-port router or someone's ethernet port in a laptop/PC.
> >
> > What does everything think about this? I know I am not the only one
> > who wants to protect our expensive equipment from being damaged like
> > this.
> >
> > Kory
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Chuck Stickelman
> > <cstickelman@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> I want to expound on what Larry has said about surge protection.
> >> You can certainly find inexpensive products that will claim to be surge
> >> protectors. Avoid cheap solutions for this! (Other than Larry's
> >> recommendation for sacrificial hubs, I love that one!) There are cheap
> >> devices called Metal-Oxide Varistors (MOVs) that can absorb electrical
> >> surges. Unfortunately, every time a MOV takes a hit it is less able to
> >> provide protection, until ultimately, they die. Some manufacturers have
> >> spent extra money designing LEDs that tell you when the MOV is dead and
> >> the unit needs replaced, but most don't bother. (Not to mention that
> >> many people would fail to check the LED status or ignore the warning...)
> >>
> >> Manufacturers of high quality surge protection often brag about the fact
> >> that their products use no MOVs. Look for that. Also, you *may* be
> >> able to tell a little about the quality of the product by the size of
> >> their equipment guarantee. (The trick here would be to read the fine
> >> print... and know what exclusions exist...)
> >>
> >> In the end though, as Larry mentioned in his first response, lightning
> >> is a whole subject itself. It might not be possible to identify and
> >> protect every path that lightning can take to get into your network.
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 22:28 +0100, DiGioia, Larry wrote:
> >>> The answer is, there is no affordable product that will protect your
> >>> equipment.
> >>>
> >>> A good Ethernet surge suppressor goes for $$85 and up. I have one in my
> >>> outdoor transmitter shack, on the CAT5 line that goes to the top of my
> >>> 110' tower, where there are multiple wi-fi panels. It also requires a
> >>> good ground, meaning an RF ground - which would be copper strap attached
> >>> to a 6' ground rod less than 10' away. This is probably not practical for
> >>> you.
> >>>
> >>> My tower recently took a direct hit - destroying the panels, and a key
> >>> component of my antenna rotor. But it did not make it into the house. (I
> >>> also have coaxial surge suppressors, and rotor control line surge
> >>> suppressors, all mounted on a solid copper bar, which is tied through
> >>> that 3" copper strap, to a network of ground rods. Altogether, I have 20+
> >>> ground rods around the house...)
> >>>
> >>> I would recommend that you consider using sacrificial hubs - old hubs or
> >>> switches at strategic points. They tend to not transfer hits to other
> >>> ports, although this is not a certainty. But for 0 - $10 or so, I would
> >>> say they are worth it.
> >>>
> >>> And there's always wi-fi...
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ncolug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ncolug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>> Behalf Of Kory Pounds
> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:06 PM
> >>> To: ncolug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [ncolug] Re: How can only the ethernet ports blow out on the
> >>> wireless router???
> >>>
> >>> Everyone,
> >>>
> >>> After reading Larry's reply, how can I protect against this? Is it
> >>> even possible to protect against this? I really do not want to have to
> >>> bother with unplugging ethernet cords every time we think there might
> >>> be another storm. What about if we do not realize a storm is about to
> >>> enter the area?
> >>>
> >>> Is there something that can protect an ethernet line from surges? What
> >>> about utilizing some cheap hub where the long ethernet line from the
> >>> second floor can plug into right before the hub plugs into the router
> >>> next to it in the basement, so that the cheap hub blows out instead of
> >>> the nicer, more expensive wireless router?
> >>>
> >>> There has to be an answer to this. What do you all make of this? Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Kory
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 7:29 AM, Larry DiGioia<larry@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>> Lightning is a whole subject in itself. As a ham radio operator, I am
> >>>> quite
> >>>> familiar with this, and I have also seen many episodes like your in the
> >>>> workplace.
> >>>>
> >>>> What is happening is that the ethernet (CAT 5) wire is acting like an
> >>>> antenna, picking up the lightning like a radio wave. Lightning IS in
> >>>> fact,
> >>>> RF.
> >>>>
> >>>> The results vary at different points and places because of differences in
> >>>> lengths of the cable (resonances) and differences in the potential with
> >>>> respect to ground of other connected equipment. NOT being plugged into AC
> >>>> power would help in this case.
> >>>>
> >>>> You may also see ethernet ports fail later due to "degradation" as
> >>>> opposed
> >>>> to outright destruction.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 09/14/2011 11:15 PM, Kory Pounds wrote:
> >>>>> Ok everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is a total weird one to me. Maybe you can help me figure out
> >>>>> exactly why this happened. Let me explain:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This happened during that violent storm we had during the night a
> >>>>> couple of weeks ago, with plenty of lightning, etc. At some point our
> >>>>> power went out for only about 15 seconds or so (and I heard a "snap"
> >>>>> in the background, too). Anyhow, after the storm passed through, I
> >>>>> found that the 4 ethernet ports on the wireless router (a single band
> >>>>> Linksys) failed and would not work at all. However, the router still
> >>>>> powered up and the wireless part still worked. I could still access
> >>>>> the internet wirelessly through it. I know that it was not a power
> >>>>> surge because the DSL modem was fine and both items are plugged into
> >>>>> the same power backup/surge protection battery.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The router and modem are in our basement. My bedroom is in the
> >>>>> basement and that is where I have my laptop most of the time, with it
> >>>>> plugged in by ethernet when it is there. My laptop was fine after this
> >>>>> incident, no blow-outs or anything else. My laptop stayed plugged into
> >>>>> the power and ethernet all during that night. I verified my laptop by
> >>>>> plugging its line into the DSL modem and I accessed the internet. I
> >>>>> unplugged it and I accessed it successfully by wireless as well. So I
> >>>>> knew my laptop was fine and the problem was with the router.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, my brother has an ethernet line that runs from another of the
> >>>>> router ports up to the second floor of the house, where he has a desk
> >>>>> where he often works online with his laptop. That night his laptop was
> >>>>> up there and plugged into that ethernet line. In the morning he found
> >>>>> that his ethernet port/NIC card in his laptop was blown. He could only
> >>>>> access the router through the laptop's wireless part.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How in the world could this have happened?! Why would only the
> >>>>> ethernet ports on the router be affected? Why would my brother's NIC
> >>>>> be affected on the second floor and not mine in the basement? Thanks
> >>>>> everyone!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kory "The Perl Guru" Pounds
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S. I ended up swapping in a nicer, dual-band Linksys router that I
> >>>>> had packed away as a backup. I definitely DO NOT want some similar
> >>>>> tragedy to happen to that one as well! Also, is there any sort of
> >>>>> "surge protection" for ethernet lines (if it is needed at all)???
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To unsubscribe send to ncolug-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe'
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> the Subject field.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Studio - D Productions l o n g w i r e . c o m
> >>>>
> >>>> "The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook."
> >>>>
> >>>> William James
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>> the Subject field.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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