[ncolug] Re: How can only the ethernet ports blow out on the wireless router???
- From: Chuck Stickelman <cstickelman@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ncolug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:34:48 -0400
Kory,
After thinking about this some more I've come up with a list of things
you could do to help prevent this from happening again. (Note that
these solutions could cost more than the replacement of any one device
on your network, and therefore would require some analysis to determine
their merit.)
1. Do nothing, put the money you saved aside to replace failed
equipment.
2. Purchase and install sacrificial devices at key locations on
your network, bank the savings as in option 1. (Fantastic idea,
Larry!)
3. Buy a decently-high quality surge protector with phone, cable
and Ethernet protection, mount it near to where these services
enter the house and plug it into an outlet that is as close as
possible to your electrical panel.
4. Do both options 2 and 3.
5. Do option 4 and add decently-high quality surge protectors for
every location with expensive equipment.
6. Hire an electrician to install a high-quality whole-house surge
protection system and run dedicated circuits ,with isolated
ground, to your equipment.
7. Do all of the above.
8. Do all of the above, and then some.
Chuck
On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 17:31 -0400, Kory Pounds wrote:
> About the Ethernet Lightning Arrester. I checked out the Amazon page
> for it. It appears pretty simple and straightforward. I have never
> seen something simple and cheap like this before to handle this kind
> of problem. Has anyone dealt with this type of product before? Is it
> really dependable or is it mediocre and unreliable? Does it end up
> slowing down the transmission of data any? These kind of questions
> naturally come up with cheaper items (not that they are automatically
> bad, it is just my nature to be extra cautious).
>
> What do you think?
>
> Kory
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 7:30 AM, Larry DiGioia <larry@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > http://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Surge-Protector-Lightning-Arrester/dp/B003MN09DA
> >
> > On 09/15/2011 06:24 PM, Kory Pounds wrote:
> >>
> >> I researched surge protection myself and read about MOV's. Yes, they
> >> are good but they do indeed degrade as they take hits. And there are
> >> nicer surge protectors with indicators that show the current level of
> >> protection that it is providing.
> >>
> >> However, how does this protect an ethernet line? I have not seen a
> >> surge protector with an "ethernet in-out" along with the regular
> >> outlets, phone and cable protections. In the story that I gave, the
> >> upstairs ethernet line was hit with a surge and not the actual power
> >> wiring going up to that level or anywhere else. My brother's laptop
> >> still worked, including the wireless part of it, but the NIC went out.
> >> How could this have to do with a traditional surge through the power
> >> cable? If the surge started in my brother's laptop, then the whole
> >> thing would have been damaged as the surge went out of the ethernet
> >> port and down the line into the basement to the router. If I am
> >> missing something here, then please let me know! I am not an
> >> electrician or systems/network guy. Is it actually possible for it to
> >> start int hat laptop but ONLY hurt the NIC as it traveled out? If that
> >> isn't the case, then we are not talking about traditional surges
> >> through the house's wiring.
> >>
> >> If there is not a device that is specifically designed to protect from
> >> ethernet surges ONLY, then I am willing to buy a couple of cheap
> >> Netgear switches that I am seeing at Amazon.com right now. I would
> >> rather have that blow out than my nicer dual-band Cisco wireless
> >> 4-port router or someone's ethernet port in a laptop/PC.
> >>
> >> What does everything think about this? I know I am not the only one
> >> who wants to protect our expensive equipment from being damaged like
> >> this.
> >>
> >> Kory
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Chuck Stickelman
> >> <cstickelman@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I want to expound on what Larry has said about surge protection.
> >>> You can certainly find inexpensive products that will claim to be surge
> >>> protectors. Avoid cheap solutions for this! (Other than Larry's
> >>> recommendation for sacrificial hubs, I love that one!) There are cheap
> >>> devices called Metal-Oxide Varistors (MOVs) that can absorb electrical
> >>> surges. Unfortunately, every time a MOV takes a hit it is less able to
> >>> provide protection, until ultimately, they die. Some manufacturers have
> >>> spent extra money designing LEDs that tell you when the MOV is dead and
> >>> the unit needs replaced, but most don't bother. (Not to mention that
> >>> many people would fail to check the LED status or ignore the warning...)
> >>>
> >>> Manufacturers of high quality surge protection often brag about the fact
> >>> that their products use no MOVs. Look for that. Also, you *may* be
> >>> able to tell a little about the quality of the product by the size of
> >>> their equipment guarantee. (The trick here would be to read the fine
> >>> print... and know what exclusions exist...)
> >>>
> >>> In the end though, as Larry mentioned in his first response, lightning
> >>> is a whole subject itself. It might not be possible to identify and
> >>> protect every path that lightning can take to get into your network.
> >>>
> >>> Chuck
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 22:28 +0100, DiGioia, Larry wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The answer is, there is no affordable product that will protect your
> >>>> equipment.
> >>>>
> >>>> A good Ethernet surge suppressor goes for $$85 and up. I have one in my
> >>>> outdoor transmitter shack, on the CAT5 line that goes to the top of my
> >>>> 110'
> >>>> tower, where there are multiple wi-fi panels. It also requires a good
> >>>> ground, meaning an RF ground - which would be copper strap attached to a
> >>>> 6'
> >>>> ground rod less than 10' away. This is probably not practical for you.
> >>>>
> >>>> My tower recently took a direct hit - destroying the panels, and a key
> >>>> component of my antenna rotor. But it did not make it into the house. (I
> >>>> also have coaxial surge suppressors, and rotor control line surge
> >>>> suppressors, all mounted on a solid copper bar, which is tied through
> >>>> that
> >>>> 3" copper strap, to a network of ground rods. Altogether, I have 20+
> >>>> ground
> >>>> rods around the house...)
> >>>>
> >>>> I would recommend that you consider using sacrificial hubs - old hubs or
> >>>> switches at strategic points. They tend to not transfer hits to other
> >>>> ports,
> >>>> although this is not a certainty. But for 0 - $10 or so, I would say they
> >>>> are worth it.
> >>>>
> >>>> And there's always wi-fi...
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: ncolug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ncolug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Kory Pounds
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:06 PM
> >>>> To: ncolug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: [ncolug] Re: How can only the ethernet ports blow out on the
> >>>> wireless router???
> >>>>
> >>>> Everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> After reading Larry's reply, how can I protect against this? Is it
> >>>> even possible to protect against this? I really do not want to have to
> >>>> bother with unplugging ethernet cords every time we think there might
> >>>> be another storm. What about if we do not realize a storm is about to
> >>>> enter the area?
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there something that can protect an ethernet line from surges? What
> >>>> about utilizing some cheap hub where the long ethernet line from the
> >>>> second floor can plug into right before the hub plugs into the router
> >>>> next to it in the basement, so that the cheap hub blows out instead of
> >>>> the nicer, more expensive wireless router?
> >>>>
> >>>> There has to be an answer to this. What do you all make of this? Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Kory
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 7:29 AM, Larry DiGioia<larry@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lightning is a whole subject in itself. As a ham radio operator, I am
> >>>>> quite
> >>>>> familiar with this, and I have also seen many episodes like your in the
> >>>>> workplace.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What is happening is that the ethernet (CAT 5) wire is acting like an
> >>>>> antenna, picking up the lightning like a radio wave. Lightning IS in
> >>>>> fact,
> >>>>> RF.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The results vary at different points and places because of differences
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> lengths of the cable (resonances) and differences in the potential with
> >>>>> respect to ground of other connected equipment. NOT being plugged into
> >>>>> AC
> >>>>> power would help in this case.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You may also see ethernet ports fail later due to "degradation" as
> >>>>> opposed
> >>>>> to outright destruction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 09/14/2011 11:15 PM, Kory Pounds wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ok everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is a total weird one to me. Maybe you can help me figure out
> >>>>>> exactly why this happened. Let me explain:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This happened during that violent storm we had during the night a
> >>>>>> couple of weeks ago, with plenty of lightning, etc. At some point our
> >>>>>> power went out for only about 15 seconds or so (and I heard a "snap"
> >>>>>> in the background, too). Anyhow, after the storm passed through, I
> >>>>>> found that the 4 ethernet ports on the wireless router (a single band
> >>>>>> Linksys) failed and would not work at all. However, the router still
> >>>>>> powered up and the wireless part still worked. I could still access
> >>>>>> the internet wirelessly through it. I know that it was not a power
> >>>>>> surge because the DSL modem was fine and both items are plugged into
> >>>>>> the same power backup/surge protection battery.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The router and modem are in our basement. My bedroom is in the
> >>>>>> basement and that is where I have my laptop most of the time, with it
> >>>>>> plugged in by ethernet when it is there. My laptop was fine after this
> >>>>>> incident, no blow-outs or anything else. My laptop stayed plugged into
> >>>>>> the power and ethernet all during that night. I verified my laptop by
> >>>>>> plugging its line into the DSL modem and I accessed the internet. I
> >>>>>> unplugged it and I accessed it successfully by wireless as well. So I
> >>>>>> knew my laptop was fine and the problem was with the router.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, my brother has an ethernet line that runs from another of the
> >>>>>> router ports up to the second floor of the house, where he has a desk
> >>>>>> where he often works online with his laptop. That night his laptop was
> >>>>>> up there and plugged into that ethernet line. In the morning he found
> >>>>>> that his ethernet port/NIC card in his laptop was blown. He could only
> >>>>>> access the router through the laptop's wireless part.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How in the world could this have happened?! Why would only the
> >>>>>> ethernet ports on the router be affected? Why would my brother's NIC
> >>>>>> be affected on the second floor and not mine in the basement? Thanks
> >>>>>> everyone!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kory "The Perl Guru" Pounds
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> P.S. I ended up swapping in a nicer, dual-band Linksys router that I
> >>>>>> had packed away as a backup. I definitely DO NOT want some similar
> >>>>>> tragedy to happen to that one as well! Also, is there any sort of
> >>>>>> "surge protection" for ethernet lines (if it is needed at all)???
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe send to ncolug-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe'
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> the Subject field.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Studio - D Productions l o n g w i r e . c o m
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> William James
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To unsubscribe send to ncolug-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe'
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> the Subject field.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe send to ncolug-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in
> >>> the Subject field.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Studio - D Productions l o n g w i r e . c o m
> >
> > "The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook."
> >
> > William James
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe send to ncolug-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in
> > the Subject field.
> >
> >
>
>
>
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