Thanks Tom and Sirkku.
I love it.
I made an extended version with some ear candy.
It would be nice to have the original files or the stems at least
since the quality goes naturally down the hill if you reprocess the
master again.
Anyways, here's the link.
https://www.dropbox.com/t/1wwEYwr76TL96Bfn
PS. It was a lucky strike that my dog Jack is love-struck these days
so he gave his contribution as well.
Cheers
Robert
On 10/03/2021, tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Rich,
No, there's no chorus on her vocals. And I doubt it's an artifact of
deverbing. I think it's the slight shadow of the original room reverb that
remained. Maybe another gentle pass with a short decay time would have
trimmed it. Who knows.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Rich Caloggero
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:50 AM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
So just curious -- I was hearing a bit of chorusing, or what sounded like
chorusing, on the vocals. I'm now thinking this is slight artifacts of the
de-verb processing. Is this true, or was their slight chorusing on the
vocals added after deverbing?
-- Rich
-- Rich
On 3/9/2021 12:13 AM, tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Neal,
I really don’t know. As I said, I’ve only had the program for a few
weeks. And this is the first time I used the de-reverb. I think this
kind of stuff takes a lot of trial and error to get to know it and
figure out the best approach on particular types of signals. I’m
pretty sure if I go at Sirkku’s vocals again and again and again I
could probably get better results. And maybe if I can figure out how
to make a selection that has the elements they suggest, the learn
process will come up with much better settings than I did manually.
Tom
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*On Behalf Of *Neal Ewers
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:04 AM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi Tom. I can see the complications of this. What happens if I try to
lower the reverb on a vocal sound that ends in a soft, m or N, or even
s. Esses may be easier, but M and N are well within the frequency of
other vocal utterances. Do I simply lose some of those softer sounds?
Thanks.
Neal
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*On Behalf Of *tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Sent:* Monday, March 8, 2021 10:59 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi Neal,
Yes, you can at least lower the reverb. And given the staccato nature
of speech versus singing they have different modules to do so. There’s
the general de-reverb module which is used for say a vocal track,
sub-mix, or an entire song. Then there’s the dialog de-reverb
specifically designed for speech. There’s also a dialog isolate
module. Think of a reporter reporting live. Dialog isolate tries to
lower the background noise of people talking, traffic, etc.
But of course this is all very difficult to do. So don’t expect magic.
One of the approaches they recommend if it doesn’t do enough on one
pass is to do one pass to lower the tails and then another to lower
the early reflections. This is done by adjusting the decay length,
which in effect tells the processor what to work on.
Realistically it will just lower the reverb, e.g. shrink a concert
hall down to a pub, a pub down to a room, and a room down pretty good.
Although in some ways the latter is the hardest. This is what I had to
do with Sirkku’s vocals. It was your typical living room reverb: short
and boxy. So I did a 1 or maybe 1.5 seconds pass and then a .5 seconds
pass.
It’s tricky though because it can take away from the signal too.
Fortunately there’s a residual button that allows you to hear what
it’s removing. And often you’ll hear part of the sound in with the
reverb. So you have to play around with the overall processing
strength and there’s also four frequency bands you can adjust.
Sometimes you just can’t get much done without it dulling the signal.
But as long as it’s not too bad you can go with it and then EQ the
signal back up to pretty much where it was.
Hth,
Tom
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of *Neal Ewers
*Sent:* Monday, March 8, 2021 11:18 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Tom. Sorry if I am misunderstanding this, but are you saying you can
get rid of reverb, or are you just deciding what the reverb is by
listening to the tail?
Thanks.
Neal
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of
*tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Monday, March 8, 2021 10:01 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Wow! What a difference in personalities. I battle to the end for
independence before calling on the brutal force it takes to get me to
ask someone else to do anything. But hey, different strokes for
different folks.
PS. I meant to mention this in my previous message. One of the things
I haven’t figured out yet is how to make a selection in RX-8. I don’t
know if it really matters, but for some processes, like de-reverb,
they recommend selecting a section that begins with the noise floor,
then a vocal phrase, followed by the reverb tail. You can set markers
in the editor with M, like in Sound Forge, but I haven’t figured out
how to select from one marker to another.
Tom
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of *Ross McGregor
*Sent:* Monday, March 8, 2021 10:47 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Tom,
No, I said that I do have eyes. My partner helps me in that regard.
When you have eyes you tend not to explore access too much, even
though perhaps I should, for the sake of independence.
Regards,
Ross.
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of
*tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, 9 March 2021 2:40 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Ross,
I’m confused. In your previous message you said you separated the
guitar and vocal with RX-8, and here you say you don’t know about the
accessibility and you’d probably need eyes. Did someone else do this
for you?
Anyway, you can do two different things with the rebalance module:
rebalance vocals, bass, percussion, and all other, with sliders in dB.
Or you can just tab to the separate stems button and all level
adjustments will be ignored and the song split into separate files.
And along with the good, better, and best quality option there’s also
a knee scale on how hard the split is. So you can spend quite a bit of
time running this again and again when you want to separate because
there’s obviously no way to preview that. I did three or maybe four
passes on Sirkku’s song and ended up using the best quality but with
the knee at
17 compared to the default 38. It’s on a scale of 1 to 100. The
differences are subtle. Then again, it depends on the song you’re
working on.
I got the advanced version because that gives you most of the modules
separately so you can use them in your DAW. But the stand alone
program is pretty accessible. You do have to route the mouse and click
on the buttons, e.g. preview and render, because space is the global
play/pause key and enter is the global rewind to beginning. I could
probably redefine them, but I haven’t even looked at that window yet
to see if it’s accessible. I just got the program a few weeks ago.
There’s three versions of RX-8: elements, standard, and advanced.
Here’s iZotope’s page where there’s a big table showing the differences.
Elements is pretty basic. And while advanced gives you the separate
modules there are also some that are not included in the standard
version.
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/rx/features.html
<https://www.izotope.com/en/products/rx/features.html>
Regards,
Tom
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of *Ross McGregor
*Sent:* Monday, March 8, 2021 8:52 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi Gudrun,
They have rx8 standard and rx8 advanced.
Generally the standard would cover most situations.
Not sure of the pricing, might be $400 or above.
They do have sales from time to time.
Access right now, you’d need eyes as far as I know, but I haven’t
really checked out it’s access possibilities.
Actually if tom was interested in rx8, he would be the best one to
assess it’s access, and perhaps he may want to write some access
software for it if he felt so moved.
Ross.
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of *Gudrun Brunot
*Sent:* Tuesday, 9 March 2021 12:21 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hey, Ross, that was impressive. How much is that program, and what
specifically should one get—what is worth buying considering
accessibility? There were a few options on the website I found.
Gudrun
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of *Ross McGregor
*Sent:* Monday, March 08, 2021 4:44 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Tom and Sirkku,
Yes sounding good, even though you had a year off.
Tom, there is a program called rx8. Allows you to split the vocals and
guitar on to separate tracks.
I have done that, and will send you the voice file and the guitar
file, so you can have a play around.
I did some fiddling with the first minute of the song, doing some e q,
compression and pitch adjust on the vocal, to show how the split gives
you a lot more options.
I also thought others on this list may want to learn about rx8 and
it’s
possibilities.
At the link below.
Ross.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bd0ot7n9a93p1jg/the%20hobo%20short%20mix.wav
?dl=0
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/bd0ot7n9a93p1jg/the%20hobo%20short%20mix.wa
v?dl=0>
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of
*tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Monday, 8 March 2021 8:19 AM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Gudrun,
No, unfortunately the Olympus DM-4 with the Neumann mic’s and the Neve
pre’s never went into production. They just couldn’t get them to fit
in the stereo remote sized recorder. Here’s a brief little example of
the pulling up front I did. It’s just the opening and the first few
lines of the original and then the master. Maybe it’s over-cooked. Who am
I to say.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3r6jk9ucmgqax4/The%20Song%20Of%20The%20Old%
20Hobo%20before%20and%20after.mp3?dl=1
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3r6jk9ucmgqax4/The%20Song%20Of%20The%20Old
%20Hobo%20before%20and%20after.mp3?dl=1>
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of *Gudrun Brunot
*Sent:* Sunday, March 7, 2021 2:28 PM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Is there such a package. I totally understand what you mean—once the
song is recorded in one go, no separate tracks, an engineer can only
do so much—but you did.
Gudrun
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of
*tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Sunday, March 07, 2021 10:31 AM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi Gudrun,
I agree. But I had to have both feet leveraged against the wall to
pull her vocals out as much as I did. I was amazed I got what I did
out of it. She was too cheap to get the Olympus with the Neumann and
Neve options. (smile)
Tom
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of *Gudrun Brunot
*Sent:* Sunday, March 7, 2021 10:31 AM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi, I like it, too. I’d wish for the vocals to be standing out a bit
more—a few spots where the lyrics are could be clearer. If it’s
recorded on the Olympus, that may ot leave room for that. It’s a nice
song and sung in her lovely voice.
Gudrun
*From:* midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> *On Behalf Of
*tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Sunday, March 07, 2021 2:02 AM
*To:* midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [freelists-midimag] A new song from Sirkku
This is a song she wrote and then recorded with her Olympus DM-4
portable recorder. She sent me the MP3 and I really liked it. I tried
to tweak it, but of course it’s a waste of time with an MP3. So I had
her send me the wave file to see what I could do with it. Here’s the
result.
I hope you enjoy the song as much as I do.
It’s a 6.2 meg MP3.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2xufpqnyc5g8n8/The%20Song%20Of%20The%20Old%
20Hobo%20-%20TK%20remaster.mp3?dl=1
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2xufpqnyc5g8n8/The%20Song%20Of%20The%20Old
%20Hobo%20-%20TK%20remaster.mp3?dl=1>
