Hi Neal,
Yes, you can at least lower the reverb. And given the staccato nature of
speech versus singing they have different modules to do so. There's the
general de-reverb module which is used for say a vocal track, sub-mix, or an
entire song. Then there's the dialog de-reverb specifically designed for
speech. There's also a dialog isolate module. Think of a reporter reporting
live. Dialog isolate tries to lower the background noise of people talking,
traffic, etc.
But of course this is all very difficult to do. So don't expect magic. One
of the approaches they recommend if it doesn't do enough on one pass is to
do one pass to lower the tails and then another to lower the early
reflections. This is done by adjusting the decay length, which in effect
tells the processor what to work on.
Realistically it will just lower the reverb, e.g. shrink a concert hall down
to a pub, a pub down to a room, and a room down pretty good. Although in
some ways the latter is the hardest. This is what I had to do with Sirkku's
vocals. It was your typical living room reverb: short and boxy. So I did a 1
or maybe 1.5 seconds pass and then a .5 seconds pass.
It's tricky though because it can take away from the signal too. Fortunately
there's a residual button that allows you to hear what it's removing. And
often you'll hear part of the sound in with the reverb. So you have to play
around with the overall processing strength and there's also four frequency
bands you can adjust. Sometimes you just can't get much done without it
dulling the signal. But as long as it's not too bad you can go with it and
then EQ the signal back up to pretty much where it was.
Hth,
Tom
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Neal Ewers
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:18 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Tom. Sorry if I am misunderstanding this, but are you saying you can get rid
of reverb, or are you just deciding what the reverb is by listening to the
tail?
Thanks.
Neal
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 10:01 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Wow! What a difference in personalities. I battle to the end for
independence before calling on the brutal force it takes to get me to ask
someone else to do anything. But hey, different strokes for different folks.
PS. I meant to mention this in my previous message. One of the things I
haven't figured out yet is how to make a selection in RX-8. I don't know if
it really matters, but for some processes, like de-reverb, they recommend
selecting a section that begins with the noise floor, then a vocal phrase,
followed by the reverb tail. You can set markers in the editor with M, like
in Sound Forge, but I haven't figured out how to select from one marker to
another.
Tom
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Ross McGregor
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 10:47 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Tom,
No, I said that I do have eyes. My partner helps me in that regard. When you
have eyes you tend not to explore access too much, even though perhaps I
should, for the sake of independence.
Regards,
Ross.
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2021 2:40 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Ross,
I'm confused. In your previous message you said you separated the guitar and
vocal with RX-8, and here you say you don't know about the accessibility and
you'd probably need eyes. Did someone else do this for you?
Anyway, you can do two different things with the rebalance module: rebalance
vocals, bass, percussion, and all other, with sliders in dB. Or you can just
tab to the separate stems button and all level adjustments will be ignored
and the song split into separate files. And along with the good, better, and
best quality option there's also a knee scale on how hard the split is. So
you can spend quite a bit of time running this again and again when you want
to separate because there's obviously no way to preview that. I did three or
maybe four passes on Sirkku's song and ended up using the best quality but
with the knee at 17 compared to the default 38. It's on a scale of 1 to 100.
The differences are subtle. Then again, it depends on the song you're
working on.
I got the advanced version because that gives you most of the modules
separately so you can use them in your DAW. But the stand alone program is
pretty accessible. You do have to route the mouse and click on the buttons,
e.g. preview and render, because space is the global play/pause key and
enter is the global rewind to beginning. I could probably redefine them, but
I haven't even looked at that window yet to see if it's accessible. I just
got the program a few weeks ago.
There's three versions of RX-8: elements, standard, and advanced. Here's
iZotope's page where there's a big table showing the differences. Elements
is pretty basic. And while advanced gives you the separate modules there are
also some that are not included in the standard version.
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/rx/features.html
Regards,
Tom
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Ross McGregor
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 8:52 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi Gudrun,
They have rx8 standard and rx8 advanced.
Generally the standard would cover most situations.
Not sure of the pricing, might be $400 or above.
They do have sales from time to time.
Access right now, you'd need eyes as far as I know, but I haven't really
checked out it's access possibilities.
Actually if tom was interested in rx8, he would be the best one to assess
it's access, and perhaps he may want to write some access software for it if
he felt so moved.
Ross.
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Gudrun Brunot
Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2021 12:21 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hey, Ross, that was impressive. How much is that program, and what
specifically should one get-what is worth buying considering accessibility?
There were a few options on the website I found.
Gudrun
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Ross McGregor
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2021 4:44 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Tom and Sirkku,
Yes sounding good, even though you had a year off.
Tom, there is a program called rx8. Allows you to split the vocals and
guitar on to separate tracks.
I have done that, and will send you the voice file and the guitar file, so
you can have a play around.
I did some fiddling with the first minute of the song, doing some e q,
compression and pitch adjust on the vocal, to show how the split gives you a
lot more options.
I also thought others on this list may want to learn about rx8 and it's
possibilities.
At the link below.
Ross.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bd0ot7n9a93p1jg/the%20hobo%20short%20mix.wav?dl=0 ;
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, 8 March 2021 8:19 AM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Gudrun,
No, unfortunately the Olympus DM-4 with the Neumann mic's and the Neve pre's
never went into production. They just couldn't get them to fit in the stereo
remote sized recorder. Here's a brief little example of the pulling up front
I did. It's just the opening and the first few lines of the original and
then the master. Maybe it's over-cooked. Who am I to say.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3r6jk9ucmgqax4/The%20Song%20Of%20The%20Old%20Hobo
%20before%20and%20after.mp3?dl=1
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Gudrun Brunot
Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2021 2:28 PM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Is there such a package. I totally understand what you mean-once the song is
recorded in one go, no separate tracks, an engineer can only do so much-but
you did.
Gudrun
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2021 10:31 AM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi Gudrun,
I agree. But I had to have both feet leveraged against the wall to pull her
vocals out as much as I did. I was amazed I got what I did out of it. She
was too cheap to get the Olympus with the Neumann and Neve options. (smile)
Tom
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of Gudrun Brunot
Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2021 10:31 AM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] Re: A new song from Sirkku
Hi, I like it, too. I'd wish for the vocals to be standing out a bit more-a
few spots where the lyrics are could be clearer. If it's recorded on the
Olympus, that may ot leave room for that. It's a nice song and sung in her
lovely voice.
Gudrun
From: midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > On
Behalf Of tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tom.kingston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2021 2:02 AM
To: midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:midimag@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [freelists-midimag] A new song from Sirkku
This is a song she wrote and then recorded with her Olympus DM-4 portable
recorder. She sent me the MP3 and I really liked it. I tried to tweak it,
but of course it's a waste of time with an MP3. So I had her send me the
wave file to see what I could do with it. Here's the result. I hope you
enjoy the song as much as I do.
It's a 6.2 meg MP3.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2xufpqnyc5g8n8/The%20Song%20Of%20The%20Old%20Hobo
%20-%20TK%20remaster.mp3?dl=1
