[lit-ideas] Re: mR
- From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:04:25 +0100
I don't think that archaeology can definitely prove that Moses (or some
such person) never existed, but it is true that the archaelogical
discoveries and/or lack of them have shed strong doubts on the reality of
the Conquest. If there was never any conquest by immigrants from Egypt,
there is a chance that there was no Moses either. Also, the school of
archaelogists headed by Israel Finkelstein argues that there was never a
United Kingdom with a capital in Jerusalem, hence no David and Solon
either. Personally, I find the second argument persuasive, the first less
so; it is not clear to me why the Jews would have made up the story of the
violent, brutal conquest of Canaan under Yoshua if no such thing ever took
place. There is also the issue of uncertainty about the dating, i.e. it is
not clear which period the archaeological evidence for the Conquest should
be sought in.
O.K.
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 6:09 AM, Adriano Palma <Palma@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Minus the minor problem we have super evidence due to archeo work in Zin
> that moses never existed, as pointed out by e.g. S A. Kripke
>
>
>
> *From:* lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Omar Kusturica
> *Sent:* 02 March 2015 20:00
> *To:* lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: The tetragrammaton
>
>
>
> I am of course not the first to suggest that the old Moses had something
> to do with Egyptians, since the Bible itself tells us that the fellow was
> raised an Egyptian. Freud in Moses and Monotheism argued that he was a
> priest of the monotheistic pharaoh Akhenaten.
>
>
>
> O.K.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Redacted sender Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx for
> DMARC <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> "The Names of God" was once a bestseller.
>
> In a message dated 3/2/2015 12:01:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> profdritchie@xxxxxxxxx quotes from Jamie Stuart, "A Glasgow Bible", and
> comments:
> "It's the sort of thing you read in small doses. And then you feel
> better.
> Homeopathic I suppose."
>
> Jamie Stuart, a Church of Scotland elder from the High Carntyne Church,
> produced "A Glasgow Bible", relating some biblical tales in the Glaswegian
> vernacular.
>
> "I am the God o Abraham, Isaac an Jacob. Ah've seen the sufferin o ma
> people in Egypt, an I am taking them oot o that land. You, Moses, will
> lead
> them aw inty a land flowin wi milk and honey.'
> Moses gulped, 'Ah, Lord...eh, n-no me."
>
> One problem seems to be the tetragrammaton.
>
> Granted, Stuart uses "Lord", which the Romans, as "Dominus", ALSO
> translated as Tetragrammaton. This was done in Rome _YEARS_ ago by
> GIROLAMO (or
> "Jerome"), saint, as he then wasn't.
>
> In a footnote, Girolamo notes, in Latin, "The reader will bear with me that
> "Dominus" is hardly a tetragrammaton."
>
> And the readers bore, because Girolamo used 'hardly'.
>
> The problem with Girolamo was that he was fluent in Greek. So the New
> Testament would be what he called in Latin, "a little piece of sweet
> cake."
>
> He also knew *some* Hebrew (no Egyptian) when he started his translation
> project, but moved to Jerusalem to strengthen his grip on Jewish scripture
> commentary.
>
> "I could not think of a better place to learn Hebrew," he later told his
> friend Marius.
>
> A wealthy Roman aristocrat, Paula, funded Girolamo's stay in a monastery in
> Bethlehem and he completed his translation of the Old Testament there.
>
> It is there that he proposes that, for the 'vulgus' (hence Vulgate), the
> tetragrammaton should be rendered as "DOMINVS".
>
> Girolamo began his translation of the Bible in 382 -- starting, oddly,
> with the Second Part, the New Testament.
>
> By 390, finished with the Second Part, he turned to translating the First
> Part, a.k.a. The Hebrew Bible.
>
> He had various options to hand. But decided to translate into Latin
> directly from the original Hebrew.
>
> (No mention of Egytptian)
>
> Girolamo completed this work in 405.
>
> Modern scholarship, however, has cast doubts on the actual quality of
> Jerome's Hebrew knowledge.
>
> "Surely he could have come up with something shorter for the
> 'tetragrammaton', or God's name. It means, literally, 'four letters', but
> 'Dominus' has
> seven letters: a 'heptagrammaton', if you wish", Willoughby writes.
>
> It should be pointed out that Jamie Stuart solves the problem. In
> Glasgewian, "LORD" is a tetragrammaton.
>
> Note that it's not the name God himself used, but it's used in Moses's
> answer to God.
>
> God: "I am the God o Abraham, Isaac an Jacob. Ah've seen the sufferin o ma
> people in Egypt, an I am taking them oot o that land. You, Moses, will
> lead them aw inty a land flowin wi milk and honey."
>
> Moses (gulping, sandals off as per previous scene). Ah, Lord...eh, n-no
> me.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Speranza
>
>
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