[lit-ideas] Re: mR
- From: Adriano Palma <Palma@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 14:37:09 +0000
It is called IBE….
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
Sent: 03 March 2015 13:04
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: mR
I don't think that archaeology can definitely prove that Moses (or some such
person) never existed, but it is true that the archaelogical discoveries and/or
lack of them have shed strong doubts on the reality of the Conquest. If there
was never any conquest by immigrants from Egypt, there is a chance that there
was no Moses either. Also, the school of archaelogists headed by Israel
Finkelstein argues that there was never a United Kingdom with a capital in
Jerusalem, hence no David and Solon either. Personally, I find the second
argument persuasive, the first less so; it is not clear to me why the Jews
would have made up the story of the violent, brutal conquest of Canaan under
Yoshua if no such thing ever took place. There is also the issue of uncertainty
about the dating, i.e. it is not clear which period the archaeological evidence
for the Conquest should be sought in.
O.K.
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 6:09 AM, Adriano Palma
<Palma@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Palma@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Minus the minor problem we have super evidence due to archeo work in Zin that
moses never existed, as pointed out by e.g. S A. Kripke
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
On Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
Sent: 02 March 2015 20:00
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The tetragrammaton
I am of course not the first to suggest that the old Moses had something to do
with Egyptians, since the Bible itself tells us that the fellow was raised an
Egyptian. Freud in Moses and Monotheism argued that he was a priest of the
monotheistic pharaoh Akhenaten.
O.K.
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Redacted sender
Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx<mailto:Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx> for DMARC
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
"The Names of God" was once a bestseller.
In a message dated 3/2/2015 12:01:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
profdritchie@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:profdritchie@xxxxxxxxx> quotes from Jamie Stuart,
"A Glasgow Bible", and comments:
"It's the sort of thing you read in small doses. And then you feel better.
Homeopathic I suppose."
Jamie Stuart, a Church of Scotland elder from the High Carntyne Church,
produced "A Glasgow Bible", relating some biblical tales in the Glaswegian
vernacular.
"I am the God o Abraham, Isaac an Jacob. Ah've seen the sufferin o ma
people in Egypt, an I am taking them oot o that land. You, Moses, will lead
them aw inty a land flowin wi milk and honey.'
Moses gulped, 'Ah, Lord...eh, n-no me."
One problem seems to be the tetragrammaton.
Granted, Stuart uses "Lord", which the Romans, as "Dominus", ALSO
translated as Tetragrammaton. This was done in Rome _YEARS_ ago by GIROLAMO (or
"Jerome"), saint, as he then wasn't.
In a footnote, Girolamo notes, in Latin, "The reader will bear with me that
"Dominus" is hardly a tetragrammaton."
And the readers bore, because Girolamo used 'hardly'.
The problem with Girolamo was that he was fluent in Greek. So the New
Testament would be what he called in Latin, "a little piece of sweet cake."
He also knew *some* Hebrew (no Egyptian) when he started his translation
project, but moved to Jerusalem to strengthen his grip on Jewish scripture
commentary.
"I could not think of a better place to learn Hebrew," he later told his
friend Marius.
A wealthy Roman aristocrat, Paula, funded Girolamo's stay in a monastery in
Bethlehem and he completed his translation of the Old Testament there.
It is there that he proposes that, for the 'vulgus' (hence Vulgate), the
tetragrammaton should be rendered as "DOMINVS".
Girolamo began his translation of the Bible in 382 -- starting, oddly,
with the Second Part, the New Testament.
By 390, finished with the Second Part, he turned to translating the First
Part, a.k.a. The Hebrew Bible.
He had various options to hand. But decided to translate into Latin
directly from the original Hebrew.
(No mention of Egytptian)
Girolamo completed this work in 405.
Modern scholarship, however, has cast doubts on the actual quality of
Jerome's Hebrew knowledge.
"Surely he could have come up with something shorter for the
'tetragrammaton', or God's name. It means, literally, 'four letters', but
'Dominus' has
seven letters: a 'heptagrammaton', if you wish", Willoughby writes.
It should be pointed out that Jamie Stuart solves the problem. In
Glasgewian, "LORD" is a tetragrammaton.
Note that it's not the name God himself used, but it's used in Moses's
answer to God.
God: "I am the God o Abraham, Isaac an Jacob. Ah've seen the sufferin o ma
people in Egypt, an I am taking them oot o that land. You, Moses, will
lead them aw inty a land flowin wi milk and honey."
Moses (gulping, sandals off as per previous scene). Ah, Lord...eh, n-no me.
Cheers,
Speranza
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