[lit-ideas] Re: Wagner and Philosophy: Magee and Grice
- From: adriano paolo shaul gershom palma <palmaadriano@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:13:47 +0200
one may look at Kitcher and Schacht
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 7:54 PM, <Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 2/26/2013 11:42:31 A.M. UTC-02,
> donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> Wagner [is] "philosophical" in a way that Haydn and Mozart are not -
> indeed, Wagner's only serious precursor in this respect may be Beethoven.
>
> I haven't checked this, but, as Saturday approaches (for the live HD
> "Parsifal", from the Metropolitan Opera, accessible in most cities around
> the
> world), I wonder if Magee makes specific commentary on "Parsifal".
>
> From what I was reading, "Parsifal" develops a theory of 'midleide', which
> is 'com-passion', or 'sympathy'. One is reminded of, say, Witters and
> Wisdom on OTHER MINDS.
>
> "I have a tootache" ("Oh, I'm sorry to hear that").
>
> In Wagner's case, when Kundry kisses Parsifal, he goes on, slightly out of
> the blue:
>
> "Amfortas! The wound! The wound!" (Amfortas, la piaga, la piaga, in the
> Italian metrical translation).
>
> The idea is that Parsifal, in A SERIOUS WAY, is feeling for Amfortas's
> wound.
>
> One problem I detect in Parsifal, which Magee possibly comments on (not my
> problem but its source) is that "Parsifal" combines TWO different elements:
> (a) the Celtic or Gaulish (as it were) legend of the Holy Grail knight --
> which is what I adore -- and (b) a lot of Buddhist elements which were
> later acquired by Wagner, and meant for A DIFFERENT opera, "I vincitori",
> that
> he never wrote: stuff on reincarnation, selflessness, etc.
>
> ------
>
> As far as (a), I don't see a lot of philosophy there; after all, these
> romances of the Grail were meant by philosophers as AMUSEMENTS as they
> stopped
> discussing, for a while, alla Walter O., what metaphysics was.
>
> The RELIGIOUS elements in PARSIFAL (the holy spear of Longinus, and the
> callice of the grail) are to me secondary in so far as an appreciation of
> the
> inner character of Parsifal (French "Perceval", English "Percival" --
> pretty aristocratic first name) is more important.
>
> "Lohengrin", incidentally, introduces himself as the 'son of Parsifal',
> which is paradoxical, in that Parsifal is usually rendered as 'chaste', but
> not to paradoxical in that there are like three senses of 'chaste' (cfr.
> Grice, 'do not multiply senses beyond necessity').
>
> Wagner's sources for Parsifal were a mediaeval romance in German and one in
> French.
>
> I said he wrote his own libretti unlike Verdi, and perhaps this relates,
> because I'm more interested in stories than their musical settings.
>
> Grice said that "Meistersinger" was for children; perhaps "Parsifal", too.
> Or then Grice was wrong and neither is. (There may be a 'third man'
> argument there, somewhere, too).
>
> Another interesting exegesis of "Parsifal" concerns Freud, since Parsifal's
> MOTHER features interestingly in the story and Kundry makes some apt
> reflections on the nature of 'love', the 'first kiss of love', and how
> this goes
> over Parsifal's head, who is more into 'agape' or 'caritas' (if not
> 'philia').
>
> Thanks to D. McEvoy for his commentary.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Speranza
>
>
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--
palma, KZN
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palma
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Durban 4041 South Africa
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