[lit-ideas] Re: Truth relatavized
- From: "Walter C. Okshevsky" <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:14:09 -0330
Quoting Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>
> --- On Sat, 2/1/10, Walter C. Okshevsky <wokshevs@xxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > Truth is the
> > > correspondence (of a proposition) to the facts [a la
> > Tarski].
> >
> > I did hang around long enuff to hear an answer, but I doubt
> > the answer is
> > coherent. Isn't it the case that facts are those kinds of
> > beasties that are
> > *expressed* by propositions, if true? Surely true
> > propositions don't and can't
> > "correspond" to facts as if facts grew on trees, or were
> > encased in sherry
> > casks, and were able to be individuated independent of
> > propositional form.
>
> Well this is just confusion. The fact "Snow is white" is (assumimg it true a
> statement) independent of the expression "Snow is white". Its truth is, in
> this sense, "individuated independent of propositional form", even if
> _expressing_ such a truth is not.
>
> [The reference to facts growing on trees is neither here nor there; facts
> aren't encased in sherry casks either, though some thoughts and their
> expression might be influenced by the contents of such casks.]
>
> Donal
>
W.O
Donal draws a distinction between truth and the expression of truth, maintaining
that the former is possible independent of propositional form while the latter
is not or may not be (not clear given the "if." Given the possibility of the
former, we are, D continues, entitled to speak of true statements as
"corresponding to" facts.
I deny the cogency of this arch-realist conception of facts. Without a language
and the possibility for formulating semantic content in propositional form
which it allows, there would be no "facts" to speak of. But D's distinction
would immediately aver that I beg the question against the view that "facts to
speak of" is one thing while "facts" are another.
My riposte suggests - actually, many people have held similar views, including
HIM again - that without a subject-predicate langauge, we would not have a
subject-property ontology and the corresponding conception of facts. D is
invited to argue against my position in a non-circular manner.
Then there's the cheap shot of demanding D to provide an example of truth that
is not simultaneously and expression of truth. So I won't take it.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year with burgeoning, overflowing sherry casks
to one and all.
Walter O
MUN
>
>
> > (Just as human being does not exist independently of its
> > understanding of the
> > nature of human being - HIM again - the nosing and tasting
> > notes of a fine
> > single malt do not exist independent of their linguistic
> > description in
> > Jackson's bible.)
> >
> > A Hapy New Year to anyone whose calendar so proclaims.
> >
> > Walter O.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > May we infere that all those writing from de Saussure
> > onwards are to be
> > > regarded relatavist?
> > >
> > > T E Fjeld
> > > Eidsvoll
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > > Alt i ett. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek,
> > kalender og
> > > notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com
> > >
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>
>
>
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