LH>I take your point, Judy (at least I think I do). I have tended to LH> believe those who have asserted that Muslim immigrants more LH> readily integrate into US society because they are wealthier LH> and better educated to start with. Yes. Actually initially you contended that "the US" was more successful (than "Europe") at integrating Muslims, but I accept your formulation here; my quibble is and has been that US immigration policy will favour those most likely to be/come wealthy and well-educated. The UK is adopting a similar policy, FYI. LH>I went with my wife to see the Liver-Transplant specialist LH>at Loma Linda. He had a very difficult-to-pronounce LH>Arab name. Susan asked him where he was from. He LH>said Fresno. She said, "I mean, where were you born." LH> He got an exasperated look on his face and said "I was born in Fresno." A Muslim here would say exactly the same thing, Lawrence (except that s/he'd say "London/Birmingham/Cardiff" and might be more offended). Our Olympic boxing medallist, Amir Khan, is very *British*. English Muslims who support the England football team carry the flag of St George. Many British Pakistanis support the English (English-plus-Welsh) cricket team rather than support Pakistan (but British West Indians, who are far better integrated and more laid back, support the Windies against England and Trinidad and Tobago against England -- in the latter case, switching to England later; these matters are not simple). Sajid Mahmood, of Pakistani origin, plays cricket for England -- most recently, against Pakistan -- as does Monty Panesar, Sikh. (Etc.) LH>I don't know how many Muslims I have known, but I have LH> never met one I suspected of being hostile toward the LH> United States or uninterested in being an American. The people who are alleged to have tried to carry out the 21/7 failed bombings here are most certainly not uninterested in being Brits, but they are strongly opposed to UK foreign policy -- and probably express strong dislike of "British values", we do have something of a problem there. LH>If someone sounds like an American, has an American job LH>and American ambitions he is probably not a Jihadist If someone sounds like a Brit, has a British job (or does not), is ambitious (or is not), then on the opinion poll percentages we have, s/he is very unlikely to support the London bombings (let alone be linked to them) -- sorry, "not a Jihadist" is too vague for me. LH> But the article implies that a number of American Muslims LH> are supporting the "'mujahideen' groups." It would be LH>interesting to learn more about what this support consists of. I agree LH>Perhaps the protestors were thinking more along the lines LH> of sending money rather than actively engaging in the sort LH>of support Mr. Chandia is going to prison for. Maybe. I certainly think they probably weren't plotting to carry out bombings on US soil. But - my point is -- they certainly don't seem very happy about US foreign policy (and why should they be?) and may at the very least have been prepared to fund attacks on US troops abroad. Judy Evans, Cardiff ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 6:58 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Terrorist next door I take your point, Judy (at least I think I do). I have tended to believe those who have asserted that Muslim immigrants more readily integrate into US society because they are wealthier and better educated to start with. They have no reason to congregate in enclaves. They buy the best houses they can afford in the best neighborhoods. I knew a number of Arab engineers and had no reason to think of them any differently than any other engineers. I recall one engineer, a manager who was being touted as having a brilliant future. He came by my desk one day and said he needed to ask me a personal question. He was concerned about being able to tolerate the bureaucratic nonsense of a large corporation long enough to reach retirement. A great number of things made him unhappy. I was just a couple of years away from retirement and he wanted to know how I had managed. It is inconceivable to me that he would have any interest at all in Jihadism. I remember another Arab engineer who was doing something like selling real estate on the side. He wanted my help in getting a better job. He was always joking. Everything seemed funny to him. I went with my wife to see the Liver-Transplant specialist at Loma Linda. He had a very difficult-to-pronounce Arab name. Susan asked him where he was from. He said Fresno. She said, "I mean, where were you born." He got an exasperated look on his face and said "I was born in Fresno." All the while I'm thinking, "Don't make him mad, Susan. He may replace your liver one day." But he had a sunny disposition and obviously didn't take too much offense at her question. He had probably been asked it before. My nephew, someone Susan and I helped raise when his mother ran off with another man, is engaged to and living with a Cambodian Muslim girl. She and my nephew have pooled their incomes to buy cars and are considering buying a house. She is a very sweet girl and has the vague unstudied idea that Christian principles are pretty much the same as Muslim principles. I don't know how many Muslims I have known, but I have never met one I suspected of being hostile toward the United States or uninterested in being an American. Perhaps the experiences of American Social Scientists and Historians have been similar. They believe and convincingly argue that Muslims integrate more readily into American Society than they do into European Society, but the subject article reminds us that we can't know for sure. The Muslims we know may not be overtly hostile, but we don't really, most of us, have enough information to be able to make absolute statements about them. On the other hand people are people. If someone sounds like an American, has an American job and American ambitions he is probably not a Jihadist. He may be, we can't know for sure, but he is probably not. But the article implies that a number of American Muslims are supporting the "'mujahideen' groups." It would be interesting to learn more about what this support consists of. Perhaps the protestors were thinking more along the lines of sending money rather than actively engaging in the sort of support Mr. Chandia is going to prison for. Lawrence